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PDF versionPressure on Dutch church after report
Jan. 03, 2012
During a news conference in Zeist, Netherlands, Dec. 16, Archbishop Wim Eijk, center, answers questions about a report on sexual abuse in the Dutch church. (AP Photo/Bas Czerwinsk)
Two leading politicians in the Netherlands, both from conservative parties, have called for the resignations of Catholic bishops in the wake of a damning report on sexual abuse in the Dutch church.
The country’s prime minister, Mark Rutte, also announced that his cabinet is considering lifting a statute of limitations to allow criminal prosecutions. A complaint has already been filed with the public prosecutor’s office against a former bishop of the Rotterdam diocese, Philippe Bär. An attorney representing alleged victims has charged Bär with covering up abuse during his tenure from 1983 to 1993.
Meanwhile, an influential Catholic commentator in Italy has rejected suggestions that the revelations amount to an indictment of the liberal spirit of Dutch Catholicism following the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).
Released on Dec. 16, the report found that somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 Dutch children suffered abuse by Catholic personnel, ranging from unwanted sexual advances to rape, during the period of 1945 to 2010. A commission sponsored by the Catholic bishops and religious orders of Holland produced the report.
On Dec. 17, Holland’s deputy prime minister, Maxime Verhagen, himself a Catholic, said the church has been “profoundly damaged,” and bishops should consider resigning. Verhagen is a member of the Christian Democratic Appeal Party, a center-right faction seen as friendly to the church.
Twelve days later, the leader of the Reformed Political Party, another conservative faction of Calvinist origins, argued on national television that a Catholic bishop should resign. Doing so, said Kees van der Staaij, would “send out a strong signal about how seriously the church takes the issue.”
Bishop Gerard de Korte of the Groningen-Leeuwarden diocese told a Dutch newspaper, “None of the current bishops was personally involved, otherwise resignations would have been appropriate.”
The commission studied 1,800 complaints involving the Catholic church, identifying 800 Catholic clergy, religious and lay workers accused of abuse. Roughly 105 are believed to still be alive.
The commission, led by a former government minister who’s a Protestant, faulted Catholic leaders for a “failure of oversight” and said the vast majority of complaints were never reported to police.
Archbishop Wim Eijk of Utrecht, speaking on behalf of the Catholic church, said the report “fills us with shame and sorrow.” A letter of apology was read at Masses across the country on Dec. 18, and the Dutch church has announced a compensation program for victims, with payments ranging from $6,500 to $130,000, depending on the kind of abuse suffered.
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The report builds on what has already been an ugly year for the Dutch church, following a scandal that rocked the Salesian order.
In May, Dutch radio reported that a Salesian priest had been a board member of a lobbying group advocating sexual relationships between children and adults. The priest’s superior, Salesian Fr. Herman Spronck, seemed to defend him, telling Dutch radio that “only in a few cases do children suffer harm” from these relationships.
The Salesians quickly removed Spronck from his position.
In Catholic circles, some commentators have posited a link between the revelations and the famously progressive climate in Dutch Catholicism after Vatican II. In mid-December, Italian writer Giacomo Galeazzi argued that “the ‘liberal’ Catholic church is sinking as a result of the pedophilia scandal.”
Fr. Enzo Bianchi, leader of the renowned Italian monastic community of Bose, and a figure with strong Vatican ties, has challenged those assertions.
In a Dec. 23 essay, Bianchi noted that more than 80 percent of the complaints indentified in the Dutch report date to the period before Vatican II. Ideological speculation, Bianchi wrote, “doesn’t help anyone ... certainly not the victims, and not the church.”
That's the way to lift a
That's the way to lift a statute of limitations: On criminal prosecution, as they do in Canada. If the perpetrators went to jail, then there might be some closure. Forcing parishes to pay huge settlements for damage they didn't cause is the American way, though, because money is the only real thing in our culture.
Money talks. Why should
Money talks.
Why should Catholic parishioners be exempt from paying monetary damages for the sinful behaviors of their pastors and bishops? Back in the day, the laity were willing to be treated like dumb sheep (and apparently some of our fellow Catholics, albeit a minority at the NCROnline blogsite, prefer to remain 'sheople').
It's called "growing up", taking responsibility for one's enabling continued clerical sexual abuse of children, episcopal deceit, and papal indifference or complicity.
STOP THE MONEY TO YOUR PARISHES UNLESS/UNTIL YOUR PASTORS PUBLICLY REFUSE TO GIVE ANY MORE MONEY TO YOUR BISHOPS.
STOP THE ENABLING.
I donate money to my parish
I donate money to my parish in a way that the archdiocese/bishops can't use any of it to defend pedophile priests; i.e., I donate it directly to the local church, by check, with the specific caveat that the money must be used ONLY for the local parish programs. I recommend every Catholic donate this way so it doesn't end up defending these creeps.
The problem with this type of
The problem with this type of donation is, How do you know they respect the caveat. Once the money is deposited the bishop has control. With only 10 of the dioceses having accepted accounting procedures and with the amount of money siphoned off to amount as much as the sex settlements, there is really no way to tell where the money goes.
If one donates to charities with separate boards that publish their financial statements that are audited, there is a better chance the money will go as the donor intends.
This year is the ad limina visits for the American bishops. In the past reports show that bishops and archbishops give large cash donations to the pope. These are never revealed to laity back home. I think this is the year when we Catholics need to demand financial accountability.
"10,000 to 20,000 Dutch
"10,000 to 20,000 Dutch children suffered abuse... during the period of 1945 to 2010." That time frame is both pre and post Vatican II. Lets stop blaming "liberal" of "conservative" practices for what has been a long standing imperfection of the Church. Until we stop looking for excuses and start dealing with what happened and what needs healing and forgiveness we will continue live the illusion that some reasonable explanation, other than the failure of authority was/is the problem. Reconciliation starts with dealing with the truth and an admission of what needs to be acknowledged as needing forgiveness. In the Spiritual Exercises St. Ignatius says Love is always expressed more in deeds that in words. Deeds, internally and externally, by all in the Church are needed. Internally, less "clerical" protection as suggested by Fr. Spronck, is needed. In light of the reason he gave for protection clergy, what action should be taken and publicly announced? Externally, while not questioning the Church's authority, lay need to express the ways in which proper authority, used authoritatively, is harming the Church. Parents have great authority over children, particularly in the children formative years. And, every parent knows if that authority is used to dominate or used "authoritatively" what rebellion and separation evolve. Do we not see that happening in the Church? Who if not those in authority, clergy and laity, can begin the healing?
Thank you for making an
Thank you for making an observation on the obvious! A common denominator that Pre-Vatican II and Post Vatican II incidences of abuse have in common is that members of the Magisterium, i.e. the Hierarchy, have been more concerned with protecting the Church and her priests from SCANDAL than they have been concerned with the life-long damage that abuse, rape and sodomy by Pedophile Priests have done to the innocent souls of the Church; most of whom will not live and die as Catholics, but rather as vocal members of society, who are informing the world about abusive members of the priesthood and hierarchy! Satan couldn't have designed a better publicity campaign for the Church!! Here's to raises for everyone at Gates of Hell, Ltd.!
There should be pressure on
There should be pressure on law enforcement to throw every pedophile priest and everyone who knew about a pedophile priest into jail.
Parents should be pressured to keep their children away from Catholic priests, teachers, and schools.
Parents should keep their
Parents should keep their children away from everyone who uses instances of pedophile abuse as a means to further an anti-religious, anti-Catholic agenda.
Any so called "pedophile priest" had clearly rejected teh teaching of teh Church and decided to follow their own morality. In doing so, those priests were acting with exactly the same morlity of any self-justifying atheist.
You are Catholic, so you
You are Catholic, so you think that everyone who talks about making the Catholic church criminally responsible for rampant child rape must have some other agenda.
Because raping young children isn't enough of a reason.
Wrong.
There were hundreds of pedophile priests, and hundreds that knew about it. That is organized crime, and they should all go to jail after a massive investigation. Oh, and we don't care if you lose money and big churches.
"The Salesians quickly
"The Salesians quickly removed Spronck from his position."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=13650671#.TwM_WHqLNkM
http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/paedophile-salesian-priest-suspended-...
"Meanwhile, an influential Catholic commentator in Italy has rejected suggestions that the revelations amount to an indictment of the liberal spirit of Dutch Catholicism following the Second Vatican Council (1962-65)...
Fr. Enzo Bianchi, leader of the renowned Italian monastic community of Bose, and a figure with strong Vatican ties, has challenged those assertions."
cf. page 3:
http://www.monasterodibose.it/content/view/4316/114/lang,it/
Yes, these Bishops should
Yes, these Bishops should resign, but other Bishops should not be "appointed" by a Pope and Curia that is truly involved in attempting to cover and avoid this world wide crisis. Only the Dutch people have the right to appoint or elect the successors to this mess as should be true throughout the world in the cases of so much sexual pause that was ignored for the past medium by popes and curia alike. There must be genuine legitimate reform or the Roman Catholic Institutional Church indeed is dead!!
R. Dennis Porch, MD
Would it be a "Bad Thing," if
Would it be a "Bad Thing," if the Catholic Church were to be declared, "Dead!" I rather doubt it as there are countless denominations out in the world, who are more concerned with living the Gospel of Christ than they are in protecting their denomination and its ministers from the scandals of abuse, rape and sodomy! Jesus promised us that "The Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN!" That is the ONLY kingdom that the proverbial "Gates of Hell can't come against!"
As I have so many time done,
As I have so many time done, I must set the record straight here. Child abuse is evil, let's not forget that. However. to state that there are "countless denominations...[who are not] protecting their denominations and its ministers from the scandal of abuse..." is wrong. A study of payments to abuse victims made by insurance companies of Protestant denominations showed that abuse in these denominations was greater than in the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the study pointed out that it covered only those large Protestant denominations that had liability insurance. Which leaves thousands of smaller evangelical communities unaccounted for. Again I am NOT defending child abuse by anyone. It is a terrible evil. But let's get the facts straight before you condemn anyone group.
From institutional death
From institutional death comes the promise of new life.
We need ecclesial renewal as promoted by Vatican II.
Not a museum church favored by B16 et sycophants.
I very much agree with your
I very much agree with your statement, Dennis, that the power of "appointing" Bishops by the Vatican must be returned to the people in the form of elections - yes, worldwide. But, at the same time, I ask, how does one envision this taking place? We see in the world, at the present time, many struggles - not only to replace powerful leaders but also the structures in place that allow them to act with virtual impunity. Do the faithful have the will to demand this in a protracted conflict?
I very much agree with your
I very much agree with your statement, Dennis, that the power of "appointing" Bishops by the Vatican must be returned to the people in the form of elections - yes, worldwide. But, at the same time, I ask, how does one envision this taking place? We see in the world, at the present time, many struggles - not only to replace powerful leaders but also the structures in place that allow them to act with virtual impunity. Do the faithful have the will to demand this in a protracted conflict?
protect us from popular
protect us from popular elections of bishops.
a presbyterian scot who taught church history use to use this example of the danger of electing bishops . he simply directed his students to compare the quality of the bench of episcopalian ( u s anglican franchise ) with that of the church of england . at the time the selection of bishops was largely done by members of parliament , to do this work did not require the member to be practicing church of england or even a believer . there were other hands at work to be sure.
the church of england had hands down the better bench . politicking for bishops has surfaced over the almost two centuries very few who were not nonentities . true today .
some day we may mature to the point that local bishops , priests and lay leaders would draw up periodically a turna of priests who seem to have the qualities needed in a bishop . say a hundred nationwide . rome would agree to appoint only someone from this list .
when the issue is qualities the discussion would not be concerned with an individual diocese and the area of politicking becomes smaller. direct election of a diocesan bishop would almost leave us in the chaotic situation of the episcopal church u s a . hard to find a leader in that bunch.
methodist bishops , i think are selected by other bishops ?
Well, whats new? This is how
Well, whats new? This is how things go.
Would Jesus, as a child, have
Would Jesus, as a child, have been safe in ANY Catholic School on this planet? I rather doubt it. It's a good thing that he was probably "Home-schooled" and was raised, lived, died and was buried as a Jew!
One thing certain, if we are
One thing certain, if we are to clean up this mess, we must first recognize that the magisterium and the pope have not the integrity to be involved.
Is it possible, even
Is it possible, even remotely, that the Church will pause for just enough time to explore the reasons why this abuse by clergy, men and women religious, as well as laity in the Church has been so prevalent? (NOTE: If you think the John Jay Report addressed the real issues and answered the questions, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you). Has this abuse gone on for centuries within the Church with no admission of its existence? Has the Church been a haven all this time for individuals seriously wounded in their sexual development and understanding of self? I'm quite certain there are other groups in society that have a significant number of those who have violated the rights and well-being of children but this is becoming incomprehensible. We're not talking about doctors, nurses, teachers, coaches, camp counselors, or any other professions which might have had similar instances of sexual abuse....we continue to hear stories of the same, more and more priests are being indicted for the same outrageous and horrible conduct regardless of the continent on which they live. The argument that other religious denominations and social groups have identical problems may be true, but there is absolutely NO indication that it exists to the same degree in those situations as that of the Catholic Church. This crisis is too pervasive to be a mere historical coincidence. Hello Rome! We have a problem and it ain't going away any time soon!
Is there ANY organization or
Is there ANY organization or group anywhere which has had as much pedophile perversion as the clergy of the RCC? Do not tell me that the popes since WWII have been doing their jobs properly or that they did not know what was going on. If they did not know, they should have known. I think that all efforts at canonization of these guys should be suspended.
This is only the tip of the
This is only the tip of the iceburg. This problem exists in public schools, sports programs, youth groups, scouting organizations, all over the world. News outlets like to trash religion, so we always hear only about the priests.
Mike, Of course you are right
Mike,
Of course you are right that the sexual abuse of children goes on in many other venues in the world other than in the Church. But I do not believe that the reason we hear more about it when the perpetrators are priests is the fault of news outlets. The fact is that the perpetrators in public schools, youth groups, etc. all over the world have not been teaching us all, with what is claimed as "divine authority" how we are to live our lives and what we may and may not do if we wish to avoid the fires of hell. Because of the authority over the bodies and souls of Catholics is claimed by the Magisterium of the church, crimes committed against their own people by members speaking for the Magisterium are infinitely
more appalling and serious than that of any ordinary citizen in the rrole of teacher or scout master.
A]It is more appalling that
A]It is more appalling that clergy do abuse! but that doesn't diminish the impact of higher incidence parent/scout/teacher/non catholic minister abuse on children
B][Add to this: enormous cover up of abuse in public schools where unions protect teachers from subpoenaed files while abusers are recycled around schools while we hoo and haa about clergy
Please provide a trustworthy
Please provide a trustworthy source (for instance, law enforcement websites) for your claims of a higher incidence of these crimes in other contexts (for example, scouting).
The claim has been made that the incidence within the Church is about the same as everywhere else, but what has made the issue problematic is the RESPONSE of the Church to these crimes.
Please provide your sources. They can be links, newspapers, full websites... Please link to original sources (for example, FBI reports), not sites which quote selected bits but leave out the total picture.
Thank you.
--Andy Jo--
Andy Jo, sources requested;
Andy Jo, sources requested; sources given
http://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-abuse-in-social-context-clergy-and-...
To suggest that Bill
To suggest that Bill O'Donoghue abd the Catholic League are reliable sources on theteaching of the mainline Catholic Church is like suggesting that buzzards are a reliable model for the behavior of humming-birds. The similarity is only in their both having wings.
Likewise presumably Bill O'Donoghue was baptized in the Catholic Church and he may have learned the commandments but he never thought them through, heard of Vatican II but never studied it, has a brain but never used it.
As for Fr. John Michael George I wonder where he studied, was ordained and in what diocese he serves...the Order of St. Pius X?
Please see the list of valid
Please see the list of valid sources requested:
* From Law Enforcement Agencies (FBI, police departments, district attorneys' offices, etc). They collect statistics on a regular basis
* From organizations (secular and independent) advocating for the prosecution of child abuse in all of its forms (there are many excellent organizations)
There is a plethora of accurate information. I am looking specifically for NON-RELIGIOUS, independent ones.
The Catholic League is not a valid organization within this context. Quoting from National Catholic Reporter or SNAP would also (likewise) not be within the spirit of my question to you because of the specific involvement in the issue of priestly abuse.
Are you able to produce the data requested?
--Andy Jo--
Mike...there is a lot in
Mike...there is a lot in religion to trash.
We need married priests, we need womanpriests (married or celibate), we need gay/lesibian priests in committed relationships. We need sexually active and mature priests to be the majority of our clergy. Those who are celibate are blessed and of course wonderfully called and should always be welcomed. But celibacy should only be a volitional calling--not anything compulsory. We need clergy who are sexually mature in places of power. Many celibate clergy have gotten to this place in their lives usually with a lot of struggle, but others, just aren't there. Many are called...few are chosen...why..because they are locked out by the dear old Vatican. Time for this change to come to the RCC. When we get there it will be better.
Rhonda - amen and amen. "We
Rhonda - amen and amen.
"We need married priests, we need womanpriests (married or celibate), we need gay/lesibian priests in committed relationships." I would add, we need parent priests, male and female. I can't help but think the childless clergy simply could not understand the horror a parent could/would feel when a child is sexually abused. Bishops and cardinals are always at least one step removed from a relationship and responsibility for the love, life, safety, growth, joy of a child. They don't deal with a child's needs directly or have that reinforcement that comes when parenting a child with a loving partner.
Ronda you may want married
Ronda you may want married priests and priestesses but christ didnt[as modern early church scholarship demonstrates-the married priest and wife lived a celibate life=praxis from apostolic times till 7th century oriental council of trullo;it arbitrarily[in canon 13] dismantled canonical celibacy praxis from apostolic times [as for priestesses they have as much early church canonical and scriptural status as same sex unions viz zilch]
I disagree. The truth is;
I disagree. The truth is; there's been as much or more; abuse of young people in non-catholic denominations but because of the global size of the RC Church, & its practice of celibate clergy, innumerable cases of abuse from around the globe drew international attention. There can never be any defense of what has been happening. new outlets are not trashing religion when reporting the facts.When others in positions of authority are accused of abuse, the media immediately picks up on it.A Canadian bishop,when asked if he felt that the scandals were starting to settle down, said that he believed they should never settle down & "should haunt us forever."
Call it by any name you wish,
Call it by any name you wish, but the problem is Homosexuality in the Church. The perpetrators/predators are overwhelmingly male and so are the victims. Such disordered persons have no place in ministry in the Church and must be rooted out. In spite of what our modern culture and media tell us, preach at us in fcat, homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and gravely sinful. The Truth will set us free.
if you are a member of the
if you are a member of the Catholic Church you represent an attitude which I find convincingly very opposite that of Jesus Christ. I might suggest you re-read some of the stories of the New Testament wherein Jesus welcomes the most ostracized, alienated, hated, despised and sinful characters of His time...you attitude and suggestions betray the message of a Savior who embraces the wounded, weak and reviled.....I don't see homosexuals that way, but at the very least, maybe you could start there if you seek to be a true Christian. Or you could revert to some of the Church's earlier activities, public ridicule, torture and death by selecting one of the following: burning, stoning, hanging, etc., let's face it, the Church has not demonstrated a very stellar record when it continues to exclude others based on attitudes very much like your own....DO not judge and you will not be judged!
The Catholic Church should
The Catholic Church should include every kind of ostracized person, but the priests in charge of our souls must not be sick themselves.
Bishops have only one
Bishops have only one "parishioner" to please, the Pope. No one else counts as important, certainly not children.
Isn't that the sickening
Isn't that the sickening truth! We need to take our church back and weed these bishop creeps out.
Wow! John, you hit the nail
Wow! John, you hit the nail on the head! Exactly!
Yell "NO, NO !!" at all
Yell "NO, NO !!" at all consecrations and installments of bishops unless the laity are consulted. Stop accepting those who are imposed. A little will go a long way. we do not have to accept this.
Demand resignations and retirements. Make a loud noise. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the police were called to the Cathedral to quiet a noisy crowd.
The interesting thing is that on these blogs, so many respond with lynch mob mentality but when it comes to doing something public, there is not a peep.
Thank you J.H.! I don't see
Thank you J.H.! I don't see why no one seems to get that! The Roman Catholic Church's unbelieveable hubris and bizarre,fantastic claims about itself,not to mention its faulty understanding of the true nature of sin's fearsome power,is what has brought so many of its members to this sorry pass.I've said this before and I'll say it again:As long as the Risen King of kings and Lord of lords,Our(true)Lord and Saviour,the True Head of all churches,is denied His rightful place as Ruler of our hearts and minds,this horrible offense,a vile stench in the Nostrils of Almighty God will never be overcome!Stop deluding yourselves,people!!There is only one who is(not has)the remedy,and that is Christ and Him alone:not popes,not Mary,not confession,not rosaries,not"prayers to saint whoever!!! Suggested reading:Romans6th chapter.Read.Meditate.And do it again,and ask yourselves that question:"How can we,who are dead to sin,live any longer therein?"Can you answer that question for yourself,catholic?And if not,why not?Why not?
This child abuse is blown out
This child abuse is blown out of proportion. There are only 2 convictions per year in many of these cases. In the United States families molest over 8,000 children per year, priests molest 2. Yes, not 2,000 but 2. The families are the problem. Get with the program.
Only two convictions per
Only two convictions per year..
D.J.Howard:
Are you lying deliberately or have you failed to check the facts? Try reading the reports of the Massachussets Attorney General, the Hurphy Report from Dublin, Ireland, the Dutch report.......... If any of these reports support you statement, I'll happily apologizs.
For more, refer to the
For more, refer to the English webpages of the Deetman Commission report.
Link here: http://www.onderzoekrk.nl/english-summery.html
Bishop van Luyn (a self admitted "silencer" of pedophile cases), a member of order of the Salesians of Don Bosco retired from his duty as Bishop of Rotterdam, is still in function as the President of CoMeCe (Commission of Bishops Conferences of the European Community), a position he has held since 2006. CoMeCe, a policy making body, is closely aligned with the Europe Commission.
See: http://www.comece.org/site/en/whoweare?SWS=aa3a5b7aeb8c17287df4e7301aca73ab
Here in Holland, we've been told that he has retired (neemt afscheid) and moved to Bonn to work with "street youth", however he's still in Brussels....
http://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/17-06-2011/afscheid-bisschop-van-luyn
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