Those Vatican II priests

Additionally, these priests are worthy of respect because they are the survivors. How many priests have left active ministry in the past 40 years? These men stuck it out. They may have been products of their era, but they remained faithful to their vocation, and that is laudable.

By the grace of God we still have one of these guys at our parish -- I and 1000s of others thank God for him every day.

We should judge the agenda founded in the "spirit of Vatican II" by its fruits. Catholics no longer believing in the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist; religious brothers and sisters teaching replaced with secular, often non-Catholic teachers in the Catholic schools; homosexual and pedophilia sex scandals; looting of Church assetts to settle legal cases born of these fallen priests; massive decline in regular Sunday Mass attendance; rampant birth control, abortion, and divorce in the Catholic Church's laity, rationalization and defense of these sinful behaviors; Catholicism increasingly viewed as "irrelevant" to everyday life, and its unwelcome stature in the public arena accepted by Catholics (bullied successfully); cafeteria Catholics; increasing Protestant type mentalities in the Church seriously threatening unity (and ironically often done in the name of unity and ecuminism!)...the lists goes on seemingly forever. While the STRICT interpretation of Vatican II has brought many graces to our Church- far too many saw this as license to begin living and proselitizing their relativism. The SCANDAL from these peoples actions is INCALCULABLE! A terrible vocations CRISIS (after all if the Church is just another modern relativistic institution why dedicate your life at all?...Might as well just stay in the world and get the REAL deal!)
It is difficult for me to find ANY SPECIFIC, concrete GOOD fruit from this period (vs. VAGUE ideas and idealism) FRUIT means obvious manifestations in the material world, not indefinable shifts in perspective etc. Hence it is EASY to see why many are anxious to FORGET this period! Even more justifyable as we see the true RENEWAL occuring now (vs. modernization of SPIRIT of Vatican II) encouraging dedicated, faithful, and OBEDIENT young vocations, and laity with true devotion and DEEP faith based in the gospel rather than social programs. Social programs are of this world!-and as such are valuable only within the context of salvation-as a means of forwarding this SUPERNATURAL goal.

Every word of this article rings vibrantly and loudly true. How God might salvage the achievement of these priests and remedy the destruction their work has suffered remains a mystery of the divine economy.

The big problem with the basis of this article is that the post-Vatican II reform of the funeral rites SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS eulogies at funeral Masses. What happened to the reform?

Amen!

As a priest, ordained in 1972, I support, agree with, proclaim what is said in this article. I don't know if I have been that type of priest since Vatican II, but would certainly like to have those qualities mentioned at the end of the article. There seem to be different ways of "being Catholic," and I would hope I have gone in the direction indicated, and must admit I am somewhat dismayed by what I see in some current trends, among which are the new changes coming in the prayers and responses of the Mass.

Some others resisted change when it happenen in the 1960's, and now I feel myself resisting change in the sense that it seems like "going backwards," or going in a direction that seems to move away from life as lived, and as spoken in our daily experience. It seems to me that some things are being done in the name of "reverence," but to me seem not so much reverent as "stuffy," "arrogant," "archaic."

I lived for a while in Saginaw when Ken Untener was our bishop. He remains one of my heroes in the Church.

As a teacher with DODDS in Japan and Germany for over 30 years, it was my great honor to know many of the wonderful men who served us as chaplains in overseas parishes. They were fervent and vocal in their desire to see the Church in reform as John Paul XXIII opened the doors and we all, civilian and military families together, became family in a new and vibrant Church. Our children were taught to love one another and themselves and were untainted by the deep feelings of self-hatred and shame and guilt we as parents had experienced as children. As one mother said to me, "Look at my child. She walks to Communion with a smile on her face - head up - facing the meeting with her God in joy." How often did we walk with head down, mentally hoping we had told all our bad sins to the priest so that we would not go to hell.

Don't forget the chaplains who serve(d) so selflessly in parishes where they are all by themselves. The closest other priest may be an hour away. And they are often in the field with the soldiers during maneuvers. That always reminded me of Teilhard saying Mass in the field and reminding the troops that anywhere and everywhere on the earth is the altar of the Lord.

And we women, as members of the Military Council of Catholic Women, were taught and encouraged and given a freedom to be ourselves and learn about our faith from any and all points of the world, will never forget these men - mostly young but many of middle years, who left their homes and parishes and gave these years to the soldiers who were ready to die for us all. They, too, are readying themselves for the last journey. Let us not forget.

About 25,000 of these Vatican II priests left to get married.. We need an end to mandatory celibacy for diocesan priests NOW, Tomorrow.

As an retired Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Olympia (Western Washington State), ordained in 1965, and as with many others we, too, celebrated Vatican II. It was a council that embraced far more of Christendom than just the Roman Catholic Church. We developed great collegial relationships. We all shared in the excitement of the Church becoming alive. We had our special heroes.

For many of us here in the Northwest Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen was one of these. One of our best diocesan clergy conferences (many of which were drags) was led by the archbishop. Many of us joined with him protesting at the USN nuclear base at Bangor. And at the end of many a Mass at St. James' Cathedral, as he started down the aisle, a wave of applause would swell louder and louder from the congregation, celebrating and affirming a man who truly followed Jesus. We all wanted to claim him as our own bishop!

As this pendulum now swings, we all will become the loser. And to my priest friends who still manage to hang in, know that who you are and what you stand for in your ministry will never be lost within the wider Church.

Overall, I'd have to say, of the V-2 priests I've known, compared to today's clergy, they were't just better priests; they were better men.

Thank you -

from a "Vatican II priest" who is still alive!

And it is so sad that they are not being followed by the new crop of priests!

Thanks for this recognition of the contribution and character of these fine men. As a Californian I would like to highlight the following Bishops from my long list of living holy, human, humble and wise Vatican II priests: John Cummins of Oakland, John Quinn of San Francisco and Sylvester Ryan of Monterey.

The unfortunate thing for the divisive, liberal, spirit of Vatican II Catholics is that ever so slowly there is no one to carry the water.

The backlash & conservative retreat didn't start only with JP II & B16, Paul VI, especially in his later decades, was also a proponent of circling the wagons, thus stopping the momentum of the journey of the People of God, long before any major crises hit...

Paradoxically, in times of momentous difficulties, a better response is to send out even more scouting feelers & small but thoughtful experimental iniatives, since freezing into immobility IS NOT a viable long-term solution...
Humans are either growing or dying; they are not capable of hibernation yet!

Perfect and sad

I attend an early-morning Sunday mass at which a retired Vatican II priest presides. He seems to personify the kind of priest portrayed in your article.

Do we need Vatican III to counter the rightward drift that seems, to me, analagous to the rightward drift in American politics?

Bishop Mautice J. Dingman of the Des Moines Diocese was one of those visionary and activist Vatican II Bishops. As head of the National Catholic Rural Life Conference, Bishop Dingman brought in a group of enthusiastic people (all laity) only to have them all terminated soon after he was forced to retire because of persisting heart problems. It is my feeling that the NCRLC would have taken more of a grassroots direction than political had Bishop Dingman and his group been given a chance.

I continued to attempt to be active for several years but found it hard because of the more political direction the NCRLC took. I respect the good faith efforts of the new leadership but I find it hard to see that they've had much influence in the direction agriculture has taken, energy intensive and endentured to mindless corporate exploitation.

The sacredness and sensitivity of land ecology directly effect every living thing that eats, especially people. Culturally, we still behave irreligiously toward Earthlife. Divine Presence and Eucharist are quintessentially what the whole complex of Earthlife is about—Chardin's "Mass of the Universe."

Ecology, economy and Eucharist are "of a piece", to borrow words of Vatican II. (Const. IV, Gaudium et spes, Intro, #5)

Their gifts and their loss are perhaps felt most by women. Perhaps, hopefully, the legacy of the last forty years is that the sense of most parishes has shifted at least some in regard to women, no longer being as presumptive or dismissive of their participation in the Catholic community. I am one who is overall very grateful for their leadership.

Thank you for this article. The last five dot points have just crystalised for me why I stay in and with my Parish. I'm lucky enough to have a priest that meets this role description.

As I sat in an old church one Saturday earlier this summer and looked at a bizarre giant cross where an ornate high altar once was, I couldn't help but think of how awesome the influence of the Vatican II priests was. Two-thirds of U.S. seminaries closed, priceless church art destroyed in the name of "renewal" and 'Catholic' universities secular in all but name...wow you guys did such a great job! Thank you, Vatican II priests!

Thanks, Pat, for bringing to light some of the strong and dedicated men of Vatican II.

I must call the name of Father J.T. Blandford who pastored at St. Dominic parish in Springfield, KY throughout the pre- and post-Vatican II era. He came to mind immedidately as I read this article - a loyal, faithful, loving servant of God who implemented the Council with a willing, pastoral heart and reached out ecumenically with great success in our little town.

His gentle and humble heart would be grieved to find himself faced with the less-than-charitable climate we see today. But it is his way that must ultimately take hold. We must be a witness for the Reign of God, an invitational - not vitriolic - community of believers who evangelize best in the example we live for the world, lives "holy and pleasing to Almighty God" as Fr. Blandford so often urged us to live. Thank you, J.T., and rest in the peace of Christ.

..."in the decades following the end of the council in 1965, both sanctioned and sabotaged by official church leadership. Pope John XXIII’s bold renewal met growing resistance during Pope Paul VI’s implementation, then revision and reversal under Pope John Paul II
"Under Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, claiming threats to the church’s identity, Rome set a course hard right toward a more distinctive “Catholic” identity,"
So the qustion must be asked;'if the Council was inspired by the Holy Spirit',
is the reversal of its ideals under the direction of the same Holy Spirit?
Perhaps it is the young priests who left the seminaries and rectories, and religious orders, married or not, but always priests,('in aeternum'),in the wake of the reversals, who are being true to the spirit of Vat II!!

In those early days following Vatican II, we lost many priests, largely due to the celibacy fiasco. In large part, they were the priests we could least afford to lose.

While they can still read it, I would like to offer my thanks to those priests from those days who most touched my life:

Father Samuel J. Luipco, Diocese of Trenton, NJ, then Baltimore, Mardyland.

Father Aldo J. Tos, Archdiocese of New York

Father Michael J. Moran, Archdiocese of Newark, NJ

Monsignor James Burke, Archdiocese of Newark, NJ

Others have passed on; still others have found it necessary to serve the People of God in lay ministry. But none of them can ever be replaced!

I believe that the pre-Vatican II Church will not regain power --- the laymen & laywomen will not be 'talked down to' by a clergy interested in whatever the latest decree issued from Rome may be.

One of the great silences in this narrative is the anguish endured by many of the laity over the decades as they watched their churches, altars, and statues purchased and donated over the years, being torn up - sometimes at night so no-one would find out until it was too late - needless to say, without the slightest nod to "consultation". At the same time, of course, the liturgy was being hacked about, with no mandate from "Sacrosanctum Concilium". And the music of course, descended into utter banality. I was there. I saw and heard it all. I even was forced to sing some of it, until I chucked it all in and fled to the traditional mass.

Well, "Vatican II priests", you who sign on to the above article's agenda, know that the great pain you suffer now is but a faint echo of the agony you visited on many of your flock. Not to speak of the shameful ridicule dealt out to those few priests and religious -the "rigid" ones - who kept their collars and habits, and insisted on handing on what they received.(I saw that too.)I know you did it with mostly good intentions - you're not entirely to blame: there was something in the water back then. I know too that many of you are good-hearted, hardworking souls who wanted to give your lives to God. But if you're really selfless, you will apply your suffering to the new generation of priests as it tries build again out of the rubble you created.

What was the justification you used to trot out to those objecting to your bulldozers? Oh yes, it was a "movement of the Spirit". Well, have you stopped to consider that the flood of young orthodox Catholics into the priesthood and religious life today might be a "movement of the Spirit", too?

These men stayed. For that, I am grateful. In light of the numbers of colleagues who found it easier to abandon their ministries in favor of secular pursuits, they achieved a great deal just by lasting long enough to be buried in their chausables and stoles. Anybody who has thought at all about it thinks that the implementation of Vatican II was hijacked. There is much argument as to whether the hijackers are the happy-clappies or the rad-trads, but that is discussion for another post. These fellows had the cajones so many others did not. They stuck it out and remained faithful to God and us as best as they understood. My thanks to them and to God.

Point of order to the author: Archbishop Hunthausen is not the only surviving bishop who attended Vatican II. Bishop John Ward of Los Angeles, consecrated in 1963, attended with James Francis Cardinal McIntyre.

I actually found this article very encouraging. Is the liberal, 'spirit of Vatican II' mob finally running up the white flag? Bring on the Catholic Restoration! Can't come quick enough for me.

Another aspect Vatican II brought to the church was the 'formal' end to the Holy Roman Empire. With that, those in power had to become the ordinary. Many of the priests and bishops of that time saw an opportunity to incorporate lay people into the very heart of leadership and service that the church was suppose to be about. Many lay people sought to embrace that mantle. Unfortunately, that effort was short circuited by those who attained power and were afraid of the humanizing of Jesus' good news, it lacked a living model, and a new effort was launched to dismantle the freedom experienced. With that clashing of cultures and Orwellian oppression, we are where we are today. And sadly, there are those who now embrace a cultic experience of church as the sole identity. Yes, the pendulum has swung backwards and it will be a while before we see the real fruits of the Spirit unleashed with Vatican II. What we have experienced--reduction in priests, less formality, calls for women's ordination--has been the tilling of the soil.

Something went horribly wrong with the post-war generation: they went bonkers, and unfortunately, many of them became priests. Fortunately, the new generation of priests don't have the same hang-ups. For those of use who wish to remain faithful to the one true faith, the Catholic faith, as professed in ALL the ecumenical councils, time is truly on our side.