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PDF versionPastor's effort merits support
Dec. 22, 2009
Fr. Michael Ryan
Fr. Michael Ryan is no firebrand liberal out to upend church authority. Pastor of St. James Cathedral parish in Seattle, a position he has held for two decades, he is a measured and thoughtful priest and highly regarded member of the wider community.
Consider what Paul Wilkes, author of Excellent Catholic Parishes: The Guide to Best Places and Practices, wrote recently on the NCR Web site: “Father Ryan is the ultimate parish priest, concerned about his people, offering them opportunities for service and providing them with some of the best liturgy I’ve seen.”
So it is worth noting that Ryan has begun a national campaign (see the Web site at www.whatifwejustsaidwait.org) to put the brakes on the implementation of the most recent, Latinized translations of the missal. He explained to NCR that had he not taken up the cause (see story) he would forever regret that he had not tried as best he could to serve the interests of his parishioners.
Wish him success. We encourage our readers to go to his Web site and consider signing a petition that will be forwarded to our bishops asking for more examination of the misguided liturgical effort.
Some might dismiss Ryan’s campaign as fruitless and impractical. Powerful clerics in Rome and certain U.S. bishops are intent on having a missal translation that studied liturgists find stilted and awkward and, in places, grammatically incorrect.
Maybe Ryan’s efforts will inspire an outpouring of support. Maybe the soundness of his arguments will have an effect. Whatever the outcome, however, the effort has significance well beyond this moment and this issue.
The liturgy flap should not be viewed as a discrete occurrence but as one of a string of events, some ongoing and others more episodic, that are part of the overarching post-Second Vatican Council narrative. Less than 50 years out from that momentous event, the council has become the victim of caricature, constructed both by the extreme left, which treats the council as if it had issued a call for absolute democracy in the church, and the extreme right, which wishes to convince us that the council, held over four years and involving all of the world’s bishops, did nothing more than affirm all that had gone before.
The reality, of course, is not so much somewhere in the middle as somewhere parallel to those two conceptions. The undeniable reality is that the council -- different in language and in content from any previous council -- envisioned a significantly changed church. The council opened doors to ideas of serious collegiality and dialogue. While the documents were hardly prescriptive about how such concepts would eventually work themselves out, what was clear from the outset is that the hierarchical culture stood the most to lose from the movement toward decentralized authority and influence indicated by the language of the council.
NCR: February 3-16, 2012
Subscribe to NCR to get all the news and special features that aren't always available online. In this issue:
- US News: Bishops Host Conference on Immigration
Conference fields advocates' questions on law, policy
- Special Section: Deacons. Serving as parish administrator; roles of wives; and more
- Study: Black Catholics are more engaged
New study by Notre Dame researcher about parish involvement in America
As noted above, Ryan is no fool, nor, we suspect, does he have inordinate free time to dabble in futile projects. “One of the great breakthroughs of the council had to do with the collegiality of bishops,” he told NCR. The process that resulted in the new translations was “a clear violation of that great conciliar teaching” as well as a negation by non-experts of 15 years of work by a commission of experts using translation protocols approved by a previous pope.
So Ryan decided to take this unusual step to make the case for prayers that would be more appropriate to not only his parishioners but also the wider U.S. Catholic community.
Ryan makes a profound point: Parish pastors, closest to worshiping communities, understand the needs of worshiping Catholics and the challenges of providing them with good liturgy.
The recent struggle over liturgical translations is part of a larger church panoply: the censures of theologians; the investigation of U.S. women religious; moves by bishops to excommunicate and silence voices who ask hard questions; a lack of episcopal accountability; and, of course, the hierarchy’s woeful cover-up of the sex abuse scandal.
At the heart of these events are fundamental questions that emanate from Vatican II. What does it mean to be the people of God? What kind of church are we? How are we to conduct ourselves? Where is the authority? Where is the accountability?
The theology upon which those answers rest has already been articulated by the council. In many ways the theology is now serving the needs of a community experiencing dramatic demographic shifts and a jarring shortage of ordained ministers.
In time, the extremes and the caricatures will fall away and the realization that our church has already changed -- irrevocably -- since the council will settle in. In the meantime, a pastor from Seattle, understanding the vital need for prayer that is coherent and literate, is leading us in the right direction.
Well spoken, Mr. Fox.
Well spoken, Mr. Fox. Thanks.
If you want to see the soul of this pastor, go to www.stjames-cathedral.org and read Fr. Ryan's just released Letter to his parishioners on the Year for Priests. What he shares discloses his conviction that Eucharist is central to our life and mission as Church...and, indirectly, gives strength to his project on the new translation of the Roman Missal.
Fr. Roger G. O'Brien
So the belief that the Church
So the belief that the Church should be democratized is "extreme"? Yeah, the authoritarianism the Church currently employs is working out so well.
"The process that resulted in
"The process that resulted in the new translations was “a clear violation of that great conciliar teaching” as well as a negation by non-experts of 15 years of work by a commission of experts using translation protocols approved by a previous pope."
And there's no way that VOX CLARA can deny this! Too bad the USCCB sold us out by caving in to Rome.What a difference a YEAR makes:
http://www.wcr.ab.ca/news/2008/0714/missal071408.shtml
This is the same Father Ryan
This is the same Father Ryan who was close to Hunthausen and did not think it was important to alert parishioners about priests who were sexual abusers of boys. His recent testimony on this subject is far from inspiring to put it mildly. See: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/406203_hunthausen14.html
Those of us who support ALL Church teachings have endured dreadful translations and liturgical nightmares of every description foisted on us by errant clergy for decades. The shoe is on the other foot now. Enjoy it dissenters, enjoy it just as much as we have.
Your judgment of Fr. Ryan is
Your judgment of Fr. Ryan is skewed. In the lawsuit you mention, he testified he had no knowledge of the accused (former) priest as a sexual predator. You also misread the newspaper report, in which Fr. Ryan made an honest admission of how the Seattle Archdiocese, in good faith, handled sexual abuse cases thirty years ago - a procedure, he acknowledged, that would not be followed presently. After his and Archbishop Hunthausen's testimonies, the plaintiffs dropped the case. Does your judgmental approach to this bespeak a similar approach to other church issues... including the new Roman Missal translation? One might hope for a church where those with perspectives different than ours might be recognized without being slandered. You have every right to disagree with Fr. Ryan's ideas on the missal translation; you have no right to disrespect him as a person. I wish you Christmas peace.
Please do not go about
Please do not go about foisting anything on anyone. Jesus (as I now understand Him, now that I am free to read about Him in my own language) taught His disciples, and thereby, us, to make choices based on what we see and hear, and how we respond to the love of God in our lives and on our planet.
Today's Gospel is about Jesus' return to Nazareth following His baptism. He proclaims freedom to the oppressed, among other things. Shouldn't we be working on that, rather than ramming through silly twists of language that will give bitter joy to people who are just waiting to "get back" at someone for some perceived wrong?
Your response, especially the last line of it, shows the kind of smart-aleck attitude that many angry people are displaying these days. About what are you angry, anyway?
(as I now understand Him, now
(as I now understand Him, now that I am free to read about Him in my own language)
LOL
The Scripture has been in English translation since long before the Protestant Reformation. I presume your language is English. The printing press was already invented (by a Catholic) prior to the Reformation as well. St. Jerome is famous (342-420) for encouraging all the faithful to read Scripture.
Put it all together, we've had 500 years to freely read about Jesus in the Scripture in English.
What the bishops who want to
What the bishops who want to dismantle Vatican II in a pre Vatican II way must understand is that Americans recognize tyranny in their nerve endings. Vatican II gave us concepts like collegiality and subsidiarity--making decisions at the lowest level possible. Even more important, the documents opened the Scriptures to the "People of God" and we will never be the same. Surely this was a work of the Holy Spirit. It certainly was in my life. Putting the most Christian view on all of these dictates coming from Rome, I can only assume they want to preserve the Gospel in their idea of what is truth. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth they say. But perhaps Christ has decided He wants to be His own Vicar. He certainly is alive and available to all who seek Him. As I see it, the deeper problem is one that is never discussed. What is the role of the Bishop? Isn't he the servant of the servants of God? That places authority in a much different light than the way they have been exercising it in all kinds of issues. There are wonderful examples in Holy Scripture they could turn to if, in their hearts, they wanted examples of collegiality. For those Bishops who give way and see themselves as as some kind of Bishop with less authority than those in Rome, there is the example of Paul facing Peter. For those Bishops who would tyrannize over their fellow Bishops there are beautiful examples of Peter who accepted Paul's rebuke and personally came to understandings that were different than he'd always had. Unfortunately in the present time, the way the people in Rome have been exercising their power, not their authority, seems monarchical and tyrannical to me. And their real problem isn't me or others who may leave the Church. It is when they face Christ and he asks them why we left. Natalie R. Cornell
I'm a little concerned about
I'm a little concerned about the "grammatically incorrect". I can live with awkward, stilted and even boring. But it's a challenge for me now getting my kids to speak proper English; this won't help.
Actually, I think this
Actually, I think this translation might help people learn proper English. I would like to see an example of what is "grammatically incorrect" in the translation as I won't believe it until I see it. As far as I know, those who have learned Latin are very good at English grammar. For example, from studying Latin, you'll never make the mistake of saying "who" for "whom" since you have an intimate knowledge of what it means for a noun to be in an objective case.
I specifically respond to you, BronxLady because I'm from the Bronx myself. I thank God that He allowed me to avoid picking up the idiom often used there; it's quite awful! My recommendation if you're so worried about your kids speaking proper English: have them learn Latin and compare the original Latin texts of the Mass to both the new and old translations. It will do miracles.
God bless.
It is absolutely incredible
It is absolutely incredible the faith that people have in the Second Vatican Council. Actually most of what they have faith in does not exist in the documents of the council. It exists in the commentaries on the council.
The issue of the translation of the words of the Mass is minor compared to the real problems in the Church today.
Maybe 70 million call themselves Catholics, possibly a third of them go to Mass every Sunday. Of those that do attend Mass on Sunday virtually 100% of them receive Holy Communion, most of them probably committing a sacrilege by being in the state of Mortal Sin.
The average age of priests and nuns in most traditional orders and in many dioceses is getting up around 60. Their numbers have fallen precipitously. New vocations are rare. In thirty years many of those orders will have to be disbanded for lack of membership.
The majority of Catholics vote for pro-abortion candidates and most Catholics use birth control.
The majority of our Catholic colleges sold their souls for federal dollars and refuse to teach the Catholic faith.
Just what is it about the Second Vatican Council that we should treasure? The seven documents and declarations of the council reflect important changes that needed to be made at the time of the council.
Most Catholics are going to Hell by following the wishful thinking that resulted from the council.
Jesus said "If you love Me, obey My commandments." Don't make up your own.
The Pharisee took up his
The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous...' (Luke 18:11)
The Documents of the Second
The Documents of the Second Vatican Council are indeed no easy read in an of themselves, that is apart from historical and theologica commentary. Not all dicuments are of equal weight and authority. Some are less important and irrelivant almost from the start. Others, "The Church in the Modern World," serve as foundational to the the mission and life of the Church. There were strong divisions in the Council, as the Roman Curia attempted to pass through without question or debate their pre-written drafts. Thankfully, there were many Bishops who understood the necessity and urgency of the council. One unfortunate fact is that even in the most important documents we find a mix of two different world views and very different theological foundations. They are by far and away compromise documents, attempting to integrate,in some intelligable, way at least two very diverse theological methodologies reflecting very diverse world views, at least two very diverse understandings of the Church. However, a close study of the formation of the documents, the points of contention, which wordings were chosen over others, the shift from Curial leadership to collegiality in the later documents makes it quite clear that progressive change toward a decentralized authority and strengthening of local authority of the Bishop's Conferences is the proper reading of the documents. As they stand, we do indeed find contradictory viewpoints, at times almost side by side, with no clear explanation as to how to resolve an irresolveable conflict. As with Sacred Scripture, as with Doctrine, so too with these most important documents, they cannot be fully understood, or properly understood, whithout a rigerous historical critical study of those years of the council and the debates surrounding the formation of the texts. Sadly, the spirit of that great work and its achievements has failed to take hold in the Church at large. I was optimistic in the 80's while engaged in theological studies at Notre Dame. Fr. Richard McBrien is by far the leading authority in the U.S. and perhaps the world on these documents and the history of their formation. By the late 80's it was clear that progress would by slight and superficial at best. So, as so many other once hopeful, I took to the "desert" giving my energies to the deeper meaning of life and Spirit giving my energies over to contemplative silence and the study of those who have experienced the Eternal Ground from which we all arise. To be honest, the litergy offers not the nourishment I need. Sadly, the young clergy seem to want to go back to a Church that never was, neglecting the one they are called upon to serve and create with the priesthood of the faithful.
Blessings,
TMS
And His commandments? Love
And His commandments? Love God with your whole heart, and your neighbor as yourself. If we truly did obey his commandments, this whole dialogue would not be need.
Hogwash. Father Ryan is a
Hogwash. Father Ryan is a long time buddy of Abp. Hunthausen. Why was there NO coverage in NCR of his testimony last May on how he FAILED to notify parents or anyone else of abusive priests in the 70's.
See: http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-051409-archdioceselawsuit,0,6717010.story
Hunthausen himself made some absurd remarks in his testimony such as this:
"When asked by plaintiff's attorney Pfau if he knew in 1977 it was a crime for an adult to improperly touch a child, Hunthausen said it wasn't "in the forefront of my consciousness."
See: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009235671_churchtrial19...
Again, this is a matter not found in NCR Archives.
In response to Miss Cornell:
In response to Miss Cornell: Vatican II gave us neither collegiality or subsidiarity. The former predates the council by millenia. The latter specifically has its origins with Leo XIII in "Rerum Novarum". Neither did the council 'open the scriptures to the people of God'. The Lord Jesus did that after the Resurrection, specifically to the first bishops of the Church. See also Leo XIII, "Providentissimus Deus", Benedict XV in "Spiritus Paracletus" and Pius XII in "Divino Afflante Spiritu". You are correct in that the Holy Spirit is working. Most ostensibly through His Church and her bishops as Our Lord promised so many years ago. Nevertheless, I too am saddened by the actions of many bishops and the USCCB on many contemporary issues. But to jump ship and abandon our mother, Holy Church, especially in times of heavy weather, is not a good thing. It is apostacy. Always has been, always will be. At the Last Judgement I'm not so sure the Lord will ask us anything since he knows all things and needs ask anything of anyone. He actually says all things will be revealed, and he will hold each man responsible for his own works-you, me, the bishops individually. Everyone. The public prayer of the Church has been in latin for millenia and she has advanced on the way to her eternal salvation under the guidance of her bishops, or even in spite of them. Our Lord requires our faith in Him and the body which He made specifically as the vehicle of salvation for all men, The Church. He also asks for our submission to His will, just as His submission to the will of the Father. "Obedience is better than sacrifice."
Matthew..."the public prayer
Matthew..."the public prayer of the Church has been in latin for millenia"...really? You really undermine your argument or train of thought with statements like that. Sorry.
I agree with Father Ryan.
I agree with Father Ryan. His insight goes beyond the obvious disruption caused these unnecessary changes. Christ made it clear that we must follow the spirit of the law not the letter of the law. The Pharisees did not understand this and neither do many "orthodox" Catholics. I am dismayed that we will no longer say "for all" vice "for many". Do the orthodox Catholics really believe that Christ did not die to save all of the Father's human creation? The parallels between the debate on rewording of the Mass and the debates the Pharisees had with Christ are too evident to ignore.
Thank you, Joe. Well put.
Thank you, Joe. Well put.
We Have Waited Long Enough!
We Have Waited Long Enough!
The new translation is a
The new translation is a great improvement on the old one. The old one is banal, bland, and flavourless. The new is rich and exalted. Much more fit for purpose.
I echo the sentiment: we have waited long enough!
Having realized the error
Having realized the error that was Vatican II, the management continues to re-emphasize product differentiation. The new text restores much of the fetishist chaff that was erroneously winnowed out. A firm dividing line between RC and non-RC is being restored. Things were becoming dangerously ecuminical. These changes will put the organisation in better shape. Those remaining within its clearer delineation will be more tractable.
Although I am a bit late in
Although I am a bit late in reading Fr.M. Ryan's account in America, I nevertheless wanted to add my comments. Some of these changes are already being foisted upon a small parish in Eastern Oregon (John Day, OR) and we were there at Christmas to see for ourselves the backward slide we would be taking after all the good that has come from Vatican II's letting a breath of fresh air into the Catholic Church. Fr. Ryan's idea of allowing these changes to happen in just a few parishes per diocese to see total reaction makes a lot of sense. And his idea of allowing pastoral councils, liturgical ministries putting in their ideas about all this makes even more sense. As he stated, we the parishioners are the ones paying the parish bills and salaries. Why not allow some input from us who will be directly affected???? So priests and bishops, please rethink the changes that are to come and allow some sense of good judgment to prevail.
Thank you for listening.
Read the latest literal
Read the latest literal Latin-to-English translation of the mass on the U.S.Bishop website. Ouch, it's baaaaaaaaad!
Angels carrying trays up to God, having us pray God saves 'some' men and NOT all, and not women or children either, just 'some' men, praying for just the 'spirit' of the priest and other inane, untheological, twisted words and phrases of this latin remade mass. NOT Catholic not Universal! Bad!
BXVI the destroyer, the divider, hmmmmmmm . Help the church and stop the damage he is doing! This newest translation is bad,
Where can I get my Indult to
Where can I get my Indult to celebrate the Sacred Liturgy according to the 1969 Missale Romanum, using the vernacular language of the Local Church to which I belong? It appears all the other ritual groups have their so where and how do I apply? Could one of those Episcopal liturgical agents give me an answer?
In the English speaking world we now have: the Original Vatican II Latin Rite in vernacular languages; the Post Vatican II Tridentine Latin Rite in Latin (run by any priest standing, bishops not necessary), and the New Vatican II Latin Rite in Harry Potter English! That’s what I call diversity! Where were the bishops of the Church in any of this (past tense)?
Isn’t it a tad ironic that the Holy Father has become the source of cafeteria liturgical catholicism? But then, he did show in Summorum Pontificum that he wanted to have more than one liturgical rite at the time in the Latin Rite Church and that having two or more utterly divergent rituals operating at the same time and in the same Local Church is sign of sacramental unity – even when we would get up from each others’ tables hating the theology, the popes, the bishops, the priest, the baptized and the languages associated with them. Ah, the pontifex maximus at work again! Building bridges and giving the Bishops a reason for their existence.
I guess, based on the pontifical directions of Summorum Pontificum it is not necessary for a priest who sees a great pastoral need to approach his bishop for permission to use the 1969 Missale Romanum at all? I think the Canonists among us would agree that if Episcopal sanction is not needed in one instance, then it is not needed in instances subsequent to that ruling. Isn’t that what one calls precedent? I believe it is.
God, who hath through none fault of thine own Godself; juxtaposing humanity and divinity in oneness of being-ness, deign in thine mercy to expose with divine mirth the futility of the ecclesial nonsense, that confounding human and divine reason, is given in your name as the way you wantth to beth worshipth.
The seminal problem: the
The seminal problem: the mandate to transliterate into something resembling English the tired, 500-year-old Latin texts generated in precisely the same era when the Church officially declared (in Latin) that the sun revolved around the earth.
The new "translation" is a slavish transliteration which results in a clumsy, arcane and occasionally completely wrong product which will go a long way in further removing the mystery and power of the Liturgy from the people.
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