Parish groups seek mediation on church closings

Foolish people! Don't they know that their role is to pay for the places, not to have any say in what happens? What do they think they are ... Protestants?

Good luck with that. The bishop is accountable for the diocese, opening closing maintaining etc. Sure, the Vatican can make a request to the bishop. Bur it is the Bishop's call. End of story. Finally, I am certain that the bishops in all of these dioceses have prayed, listened and reflected upon these decisions. Admittedly, sometimes they do get bad advice. But on the whole, the system works...

I feel sorry for these folks, faithful to the church all their lives and now fighting for their parishes. Their best bet is to buy the churches through a 3rd party and invite a married priest to be their pastor. God will be far more understanding than these bishops.

Although I totally sympathize with those parishioners whose faith communities are being shut down, I do not believe that they should be going to Rome with their concerns. The bishop runs (or should run) his own diocese, not Rome or the Pope. The less the Vatican interferes with the local church the better.

The only way that the Pope or Vatican can positively help those parishoners who are asking for its help to keep their parishes open is to decide that celibacy is the cause for priestless parishes and thus abolish the discipline of celibacy. There are thousands of priests out there (most of them married) who would jump at the chance to minister again.

Actually, if the bishops were brave enough, they should just go ahead and let those married priests minister in the parishes, including the celebration of the Eucharist. In fact, I am aware of one bishop who (now deceased) looked the other way when married priests would give parish priests a break for vacation or whatever and celebrate Sunday Eucharist in parishes where they would not be known. Too bad there aren't more bishops who would have the gumption and care for their flock as that bishop.

Jake

His most holy eminence, +Richard Gerard Lennon, AKA Bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Cleveland (OHIO) has decreed the closings of 52 parishes. He went through the sham of clustering (to make parishes decide who should close and merge so he would not have to) and then he went and did whatever even against the advice and recommendations of the cluster groups. The day he arrived in Cleveland I declared that THE CLOSER has come.

He did this in Boston (after the noble Cardinal Law got removed to the Vatican). He loves to tell the story about how he had to close the very parish in which he was baptized and confirmed and where he received his first Holy Communion and where he said his first Mass etc. Doesn't that just want to make you cry?

For Lennon, it is all about money. Yet, some parishes got closed which are financially solvent and no one knows why. Many parishes which got closed are holding the neighborhoods in Cleveland together. They provide the presence of Jesus in the neighborhood and provide social justice to the poor. Cleveland had another similar situation before when +James Aloysius Cardinal Hickey came to Cleveland before being annoited the Cardinal Archbishop of Washington DC. +William Cosgrove, Auxilary, Champion of Social Justice got shipped out. Hickey did not want to deal with social justice issues. He got rid of Cosgrove and we all know it. Bishop Cosgrove went to Belleville, IL.

The same thing has happened with Lennon. He was not here long before he got +Martin J. Amos, Auxiliary Bishop shipped out to Davenport, IA. He wants his own team, but Rome has given him no Auxiliaries. He cannot get rid of +Roger Gries, Auxilary Bishop, who is a Benedictine and former Abbot of the Benedictine Monastery in Cleveland. Everyone loves Roger, no one loves Lennon.

Cleveland does not need Lennon and does not want Lennon. The sooner the Pope makes him a Cardinal and takes him to Rome the better. Lennon has no understanding of the ethnic roots of Cleveland. He thinks Mass attendance and financial support is down now....he has not seen anything yet. He made the statement publicly that within 5 years of his arrival, no one would recognize the Diocese of Cleveland...oh yes that is right, because he destroyed it.

I completely understand people's attachment to their parish community and (sometimes) the infrastructure - church, school, buildings - that helps form and serve that community. But us Catholics do a poor job of considering the purpose of a parish plant, and the whole life-cycle of a parish. Parish's don't last forever. In this day and age I don't think a parish should last forever. We need to be thinking about the ways parish life needs to change to meet current needs. We also need to think about what things we need to let go of in order to take on the new work the Lord asks of us. Unlike many folks who post here, I am not talking about discipline, doctrine or dogma. I am talking about something much more difficult to change, and that is the human mind and heart attached to a specific form of community.

If those folks occupying their about-to-be-closed churches put that same fervor into just about any other spiritual, cultural, social or political issue, I guarantee we'd all be amazed at what the Lord Jesus does to, for and through them for the larger community. But it means letting go of something that may have been dying slowly for years. Of course this is easy for me to say - the parish I belong to is just getting started.

OBTW (Oh, by the way), we'd do well, too, to look at the experience and reasoning of the whole evangelical/non- denominational form of Christianity to learn more about how they identify ministerial needs, where they build churches, and how they create and sustain a ministering community, ministering both to itself and to the larger world. Maybe there is something for Catholics to learn there, maybe not. At least we can ask all the former Catholics in those places what the attraction is and how things work or don't.

My prayers for all involved in trying to keep their parishes open. I know how heart-wretching a closing is. My only question is----why is the Apostolic Signatura NOT for the people? Why is it always for the hierarchy? Maybe because those who make up the Signatura are all members of the hierarchy----there are no members of the laity on it.

Justice should not be just something that is preached by our clergy. The people who are affected by distressing situations---such as the closing of their parish---should be able to feel that the Church is on their side, too!

This situation of having to close parishes in the US is crazy. In Africa and in other countries where I spent 38 years as a missionary, there was no need to close a parish, nor was there any need to have a resident priest in every parish. Trained catechists and laypeople can certainly conduct para-liturgies for the Catholics in a given parish, with the possibility of a Parish Priest visiting regularly from a headquarter-Parish. This is a situation of waiting and transition, as I see it, and the Community must be content to do so until the vocation scene improves and a resident priest could once more be appointed to the parish. Shame on those who see no other alternative but to close viable community parishes!

How sad that Bishops pit themselves against the very people they are supposed to shepherd. Bishops should be willing to meet with and discuss these issues. This is just one more example of their fear of people. Bishops should love people; not fear them.

This sounds like such a reasonable request. I SO wish that I had any hope at all that there might be a favorable response but at this time when the hierarchy seems to be particularly focused on emphasizing
their power in a particularly authoritarian way, I honestly cannot say that I do.

I keep wondering what it would take for the authorities in the Church to
begin to even imagine the sheer gold that could come from respecting and working with an educated and devoted laity instead of constantly trying to knock down any lay attempt to work more closely together.

Seems like a logical request to me. I wish and pray them success.
But then again there s little that is logical that is coming out of Rome these days!

I am amazed there are no comments on this topic of the Closings of Catholic Churches and the courage the Roman Catholic Laity are displaying in order to save their parishes. So far (SO FAR) we haven't had any bad news along these lines, but it doesn't mean it's not coming. I think I've mentioned something discussed by the USCCB a few years back: "Sunday Celebrations In The Absence of A Priest". At that same meeting the Bishops also discussed bringing Ordained Catholic Priests from the Congo to fill the vacancies left by the shortage of American born priests; and even introduced the Cardinal of the Congo to the USCCB and the television audience. However, the discussion itself was not televised.

The visitor to US observes a great many very large churches, often very close to each other - 3 blocks?-only one-tenth full.

Shortage of committed worshippers for years is now balanced by dearth of priests. Equals more churches than are needed.

Common sense must win.

It is time that people in the pews owned the parishes they have paid for generations. The Bishops see the parish as real-estate that can be cashed in and the endowments of the parish to be harvested for their own use and aggrandizement. When will be stop being blind sheep and realize that all too often that faith communities are being destroyed for no good reason; except to sell of the property for $CASH, that goes to the Bishop. It is time to hold back our money until the hierarchy gets the message that there is no free lunch for them anymore. Parishes are closed in rural areas and the poor and elderly are asked to drive 40 to 60 miles to go to Mass. Their cherished Faith Communities are closed and the property is sold off. This is all done to preserve the tradition and the faithful be dammed for the lack of priests to staff these once vibrant faith communities. It's time for married clergy and for the ordination of women priests ; after all it’s the women who are the core of support for keeping these parishes alive and well. Its time for the America faithful to wake up; and take action to save and reform their Catholic Church and Faith Communities. This abuse has to be stopped NOW!

Perhaps a good solution would be for the parishioners when possible to buy the buildings themselves and hire their own priests. This would also solve the problem of the horrendous leadership provided by so many of the Bishops. Perhaps the Bishops are proving that Catholicism needs to evolve away from such tyrannical Episcopal control. We could be valid but illicit in the eyes of these extremely elicit Bishops.

Maybe then we could provide peace and understanding to the Catholic Church!

R. Dennis Porch, MD

The smallest and (rumor has it) wealthiest country in the world, doesnt have the resources to keep parishes open. Something is seriously wrong here. One has to ask the question, which is more important to our leadership:

--- the amount of gold in the vatican vault

- or -

--- the pastoral needs of the laity

Perhaps these parishes should consider setting up Intentional Eucharistic Communities. IECs are communities set up and run by the laity. They hold their own checkbook, hire their own priests, celebrate Mass (usually in rented space), and make all their community decisions on a consensus basis.

Mediation is an excellent idea. Hope it is accepted as a tool. After all, we are the church and should be heard

This is truly a heartbreaking turn of events, as it has been in the NY Archdiocese, where I live. These poor folks are losing their "families" of faith, and financial realities have little meaning to them. What I think we can hope and pray for is a way for them to adapt and be transported to other communities with welcoming parishes.

One looks forward to the day when the laity will once more gain a voice and authority in the selection of the clergy and decisions regarding church affairs rather than being treated as sheep.

How can Catholics ever claim to be moral or Christ-like when they have acritically protected and funded a hierarchy that amorally protected its pedophile clergy and denied their existance for decades?

If they actually believe in Hell and Purgatory, I hope they are ready for the flames that await them there.

Watch as disillusioned ex-Catholics throng to other denominations and parochial funding declines.

If disenfranchised Catholic parishioners stop giving the "Church" money and it has to lay off clergy and bishops, the hierarchy will get the message quickly enough.

I liken the current situation to a dysfunctional housewife who funds her husband's alcoholism.

Buy the church and hand it over to the SSPX*, or the Society of St. Peter. They will then be guaranteed Catholic services.

(*except Bishop Williamson, until he has reviewed the evidence and come to his senses!).

How do the Progressive churches handle this? The Episopalians and Presbyterians are closing scads of churches. What do they do?

Perhaps the holy spirit is using these parish closings as a way to get the true church (laity) fired up about their faith, more involved in maintaining and growing their parishes. I'd like to think so, anyway. Just as we use maybe ten percent of our brain cells, so too do we use maybe ten percent of our spiritual selves. I pray for all parishes that are not living up to their full potential.

Our parish in Indianapolis was closed. We continued as a Christian community in the Catholic tradition. We are not recognized by the diocese. We have a small loving, faith-filled Christian community. We actively support a food pantry, doing outreach on a scale far beyond what is expected for our small size. Most of us find this church the most loving, supportive Christian community we have ever had the privilege of experiencing. And this fall we celebrate our 15th anniversary.

My heart goes out to these people, too. Jim & Mary, I admire your spirit in forming your faith community...what a wonderful gift to your neighbors.
I live in an area of growth...believe it or not, and our mission parish has recently become independent. A new 1100 seat church was completed last year, and is served by 2, yes 2 priests.

We are in the far north of the Archdiocese of NY, with our new shepherd, Archbishop Dolan.

I shall continue to pray for those whose parishes have been taken away, and who are having trouble finding a way to attend Mass.

I think it is NOT all about money. It is about priest personnel. How many of the parishes that have had a resident priest or two or three for the last 60 years have sent a priesthood candidate to the diocesan seminary?

And folks, be careful what you wish for, if you think the Society of Pius X is the answer.

I think some of these people may have an unhealty attachment to their individual parishes. As Catholics, we are one body. Catholics at one parish are still the same Catholics at a different parish.
Why would it be unrealistic to expect these people to relocate (to a parish which I'm sure would welcome them with open arms, that's what we're supposed to do as Catholics, . . you know, welcome people), especially if that was what was good for the Church as a whole.
The Catholic Church shouldn't be in the business of keeping shrinking/dying parshes open at the expense of getting the good word of Christ out to the public. Think about how much money could be saved (and go to helping the poor), if these people were less stubborn about moving. How about being team players!?!?!