Ohio Catholic clergy meet to bolster marriage

"...an unprecedented attempt to bolster marriage, which they see as an imperiled institution.

"The two-day conference is in response to soaring divorce rates, people living together without marital commitments and the growing trend of same-sex unions, said Dan Andriacco, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati."

ADD: A growing trend toward celibate lifestyles taken up in imitation of the much admired clergy of the Roman Catholic Church.

"The two-day conference is in response to soaring divorce rates, people living together without marital commitments and the growing trend of same-sex unions, said Dan Andriacco, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati."

1) soaring divorce rates
2) people living together without marital commitments
3) the growing trend of same-sex unions

So WHICH of these 3 situations involve people who have received their basic Catholic education/formation from the 700 clergy involved in this summit?

Without a doubt young marriage eligible Catholics eagerly await this upcoming national letter...they are not listening now, they will not be listening then. Does anyone seriously think that there will be any objective approach considered for this gathering. All who have successfully survived Catholic indoctrination and remain free from its constraints are ennobled in knowing that the clutches of such teaching have been loosened from them.
To the young and to whom such letter intends, the Catholic Cardinals and Bishops are tired old men, who cannot no longer fool them or become foils for the follies.
The Church has much better success with social justice, health reform, the evils of war...not so much success with cohabitation, masturbation, birth control, misogyny, gay marriage, divorce or the disenfranchised in any respect.

The fact that these bishops are tossing divorce, live-ins and gay marriage into the same pot shows how they don't understand the problems - because they all impact the church in different places.

They should be putting most of their energies into strengthening existing marriages - that would require the bishops to have some kind of inkling how families work, the sort of pressures that work against couples staying together and, most of all, developing some kind of sensitivity/priority to working with the the newly married. These are the couples who haven't been drawn into the parish parents network and end up being the most isolated and lease supported marriages.

They need to realize that they don't even see most young people until they are looking to get married - their sample of whom they typically see doesn't even include the "live-togethers" for the most part. If they want to have any influence on this group, they have to put a LOT more energy into outreach in places like campus Newman Centers. They have to stop spending 90% of their time "preaching to the choir". All the time and energy spent in endless anti-abortion exercises is fine for those on the "inside" who want to make that a life's work, but they're not "recruiting tools". You want to convince young people of the value of Christian marriage - you'd better have been talking to them all the while and convincing them that you really have something worthwhile to say.

As for their fears that gay marriage imperils the rest of married couples, I think these bishops need to take a step back and look at all the REAL problems married people have,m without wasting energy inventing new windmills to tilt at. If YOU don't want to marry these people - well OK, but it's time you spent a little more energy taking care of your own house.

So the priests and bishops are telling the nuns how to live. Now they are telling married couples how to live. Why don't they clean their own house?

Do you suppose 700 actually married couples might have something more relevant to say about marriage than 700 supposed celibate males. After all the couples would actually include the voices of women.

"He will present research showing that married people have stronger and longer-lasting relationships than people living together without vows."

and they need an " EXPERT OF MARRIAGE" to know it?

The specter of 700 celibate men--who have never been married, many of whom have never dated a woman, for many of whom women are aliens, to be promoting an institution they know so very little about in a practical way--makes me want to giggle. They've vowed to live unmarried and celibate, and yet seem to be "experts" on marriage.

Their hearts and intentions are good.

As Dennis writes:

"They should be putting most of their energies into strengthening existing marriages - that would require the bishops to have some kind of inkling how families work, the sort of pressures that work against couples staying together and, most of all, developing some kind of sensitivity/priority to working with the the newly married. These are the couples who haven't been drawn into the parish parents network and end up being the most isolated and lease supported marriages."

Some of these pressures are financial. The priests, who are financially taken care of, don't understand what it's like to be told to produce baby after baby, and wonder how you will feed, clothe and educate them. Some of these pressures are psychological. These priests don't understand, from a woman's point of view, what it feels like to have one's "roles" in the church and in marriage defined by men and very narrowly and simply as submissive, hollow objects of sexual pleasure for men and "vessels" for producing unlimited number of offspring. Some of these pressures are emotional and physical. None of these priests will ever understand what spousal abuse feels like, or how tired one is after getting up all night to diaper a screaming newborn, or several screaming newborns.

It is so easy to pontificate from a celibate, sterile ivory tower. But to many of us, it is just not serious anymore.

I'd love to see a statistic on how many engaged couples meet with a priest and perhaps get partway down the road to a Catholic marriage...and then decide to go another way for their wedding.

That would say a lot about how the Church manages to "turn off" couples.

One side-effect is that these couples tell their friends about their bad experiences, and they may also stay away.

Another is that any hope of bringing the couple into parish life is gone, because there's a more than even chance that if and when they informed the priest of their decision they were told that they would thereby be "living in sin" and should stay away from the sacraments.

You might see them again when the first of their children is of school-age, and they're looking for a private school.

“As far as the theological side, Catholics, more than Protestants, have a much richer view of the place of marriage in all of life and in spiritual life,” he said. “That's not as clear in Protestant teachings as far as I've seen.”

I know some Protestants who would beg to differ.

if this conference is to be restricted to priests, then they'd benefit from adding representatives of two groups of priests to the speaker list: men who entered the priesthood after losing their spouse and men who left the priesthood to get married. men in these groups speak the same language as priests and understand all the terminology and reglas of the church, and they also understand the issues married couples face. if the ohio presbyterate really wants to understand the issues facing married couples and integrate those issues with their understanding of the church, they should involve such guys in the discussion. otherwise, this conference is probably just about rubber-stamping the upcoming statement from the baltimore conference. it's good advice. i hope they take it.

Catholic Marriages have declined 50% in the last twnty years. This is a bigger sign of a meltdown then the priest shortage. This will shrink the church more too. Meanwhile family ministry has been almost abandoned by dioceses in the last twenty years, How many of these 700 priests are familiar with Retrouvaille, a Catholic worldwide marriage recovery program ? Half never heard about it. and neither have 75% of the readers of this blog...Retrouvaille is based on AA principles which has helped 10 times more substance abusers than all the shrinks combined..
Most shrinks have had failed marriages themselves.. .In 20 years involvement on a national level, I have never heard of one of the 300 US bishops observing a program no less being the presenting clergy. I have asked 2 former NCR editors to write a piece about the program in the NCR... no luck there either

http://www.retrouvaille.org

Absolutely fascinating to see the foaming at the mouth from people in this thread, who are furious at priests for...what? Gathering for about a day to reflect on what they can do to help marriages?

Oh, how cruel, how evil!

Matt: there were laypeople at the conference, including two of the three featured speakers were married laypeople; one a Catholic woman, the other a Presbyterian man. The woman offered theological perspective, the man offered sociological data. One bishop spoke, giving spiritual exhortation -- how dare he! What can a bishop know about such things?

It's pretty funny-yet-sad to have folks in this thread so furious about priests who--they say--know NOTHING about marriage...when these folks know very little about priests or this event...but that doesn't stop them from commenting authoritatively, does it?

Lots of priests dated--I did. At least three priests I knew in the seminary were engaged. I know one who was briefly married. I know another who was widowed (now deceased).

But so what? I don't claim to have expertise in dating! That's not why couples come to me, preparing for marriage. They come seeking what a priest can legitimately offer--the Church's understanding of marriage and faith; as well as perspectives I gain from the many couples I have counseled, and who I can observe with some dispassion.

The clergy and laity who gathered in Columbus were trying to do something to help marriages. Not sure why that is so evil and terrible that it should draw out the fangs of NCR Online readers.

I agree with Dennis N above, in that this is throwing together a mishmash of possible factors, while ignoring the life experiences of those who have actually been through it.

It is a sure recipe for a disasterously uninformed document which will be steadily ignored by its intended audience and have absolutely no lasting changes...

Doesn't the Church leadership in Ohio have anything better to do with their time and our money???

Let me see if I have this right:

House Republican Leader John Boehner is from Ohio, and he's leading the fearmongering effort to stop healthcare legislation that might help more than a few married couples stay together.

Birds of a feather.....

Good Fr. Fox,
You seem to have forgotten what site you've stumbled upon. NCR Readers really hate the Church because she dares to speak the truth. When it comes to our Church, our priests, bishops, and our dear saintly Pope, NCR readers never put their fangs away. So very sad.

Like Fr. Martin, I too was at the Convocation, and although I went with skepticism and some doubts, which I voiced to my Archbishop, BTW, I came aways enlivened and refreshed. The married woman who addressed us at the very beginning of the program offered lots of great insights--theologically and pastorally. Her personal experience as wife and mother, not to mention her PhD in theology and hands-on experience in a parish, all made her a great choice to address the group of priests. She was very well received.

The same with the psychologist, also a married father of two, who talked the next day: credible, stimulating, and bearing social research that was important data for us.

More than anything else, I treasured the chance to meet colleagues, who--overwhelmingly--love their work, the people they interact with, and in this instance, engaged and married couples.

On Sunday, I spoke with the principal marriage ministers in my own parish, and shared my enthusiasm. They agreed to redouble our efforts for some ministry to the young marrieds in our tiny parish. The convocation is already having a positive effect!