Children denied Catholic schooling, lesbian couple speaks out

The women talk with NCR in their first media interview

Mar. 14, 2010
Entrance to Sacred Heart of Jesus elementary school in Boulder, Colorado

Boulder, Colorado

Two Boulder women have been at the center of a firestorm of media attention here for the past ten days since news broke that their daughters would no longer be welcome at the Sacred Heart of Jesus parish school because their mothers are lesbians.

Local media have been covering the story seemingly around the clock. Television crews have come to the school. Articles, letters to the editors, and opinion pieces, including one by Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput in support of the expulsion, have appeared. Protesters have shown up outside the church with banners calling shame on parishioners. Police have been called in to patrol the school grounds for the safety of the children. Division has emerged within the parish though many Catholics – and others – here ask themselves how this could possibly have occurred in their progressive, welcoming community.

Referred to as "the mothers" by those who do not know the couple and by those who do and want to protect their identities, the women have avoided all media contacts and interviews – until now. They also asked that they not be photographed.

I sat down with the women, both professional physicians, in the living room of their home here, walls covered with framed photographs of their five-year-old and three-year-old daughters. As we spoke for more than an hour, a long haired dog playfully rolled on the living room carpet before us.

The couple explained they agreed to speak with NCR because they wanted to clear up misconceptions in the media and specifically wanted Catholics to better understand their situation.

The women, members of the Sacred Heart parish, describe themselves as practicing Catholics eager to raise their children in the faith of their parents and grandparents. They say they attend Mass weekly at the parish with their children and continue to believe Sacred Heart of Jesus school, which includes a pre-school and kindergarten through eighth grade, excels in education and Catholic formation.

The women, meanwhile, said they have been overwhelmed by the media coverage and by the support they have received by friends and family. They said they are not political activists and have no agenda other than providing for the safety of their children. For this reason they asked not to be identified by name.

Following is their story, as they told it together. For the sake of the report I distinguish between them, when necessary, using the names Mary and Martha.

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"People are making assumptions about us that are flat wrong, completely wrong, and we felt it was time to clear up some of these misconceptions," Mary said as we began the interview.

From the time they first enrolled at Sacred Heart three years back they never hid the fact that they are a lesbian couple, they said. "We decided for a number of reasons to send our children to Sacred Heart School," Mary said. "We have loved it there. Our children were thriving there. When we first enrolled our daughter in pre-school we told the school administrators our daughter had two moms. We asked if this was going to be a problem. We said that if it was going to be a problem we could go else where. We were very open and they said it would not be a problem."

The women said they never made a "big issue" of their family situation. "We have never flaunted it or pushed any political agenda at the school at all," Mary continued. "The parents know; the teachers know. We've sat with the kindergarten teachers and have talked with them. Never over a three year period we never had any indication that it would be a problem at all. We found it to be a very accepting environment for our child."

All seemed quite natural until a it came time for next year's enrollment a couple weeks back, Martha recalled.

"I went in to turn in our daughter's kindergarten application and was called into the principal's office. That's when, she said, she got "blind sided."

"She sat me down and told me we were no longer accepted here any more. She said it was not going to be a good fit for our child and that she would encourage us to look elsewhere," Martha went on, explaining the principal said she was worried there could be confusion when the teachers teach about the family unit.

"Her main point was she was concerned about our child, about her well-being. She never came out and said we were not welcomed to stay. But she pretty much told us it was time for us to move on."

That evening the women discussed what was said adding they were upset and so they decided they wanted clarification because the principal had stopped short of saying their daughter could not enroll, just that it would not be wise to do so.

Mary said she called the principal and asked for clarification. She recalls asking: "Are you just worried about how this is going to be for my child because of the church's stance on homosexuality?" She said she told the principal that if that was the case the women could handle it. I told her we did not expect any accommodations for our children based on our family situation. She then asked directly: "Are you telling us we are not allowed?"

At that point, Mary said, the principal replied that she needed to call the archdiocese. The next day, with the principal and the pastor of Sacred Heart parish, Fr. William Breslin, on the line, the women were told that their daughters could stay one more year in school and after that they would be out.

What changed?

The women say they don't know. They said they were told that the issue had been thoroughly discussed by the parish administrators. Yet the women said they never heard of any complaints about their children being in the school from teachers or parents.

"At first we were conflicted about what the right response would be," Mary said. "We knew there was potential for this to become a big deal. But we felt it would be in our children's' best interest to simply focus on finding other educational opportunities for them."

"We did not feel then and we still don't feel now that pushing the church to change its mind would be in our children's best interests. We don't want our children to become targets in a place where they were not welcome. So we decided to meet with Father Bill and send a letter to the archbishop and we would leave it at that."

They women said they were "personally hurt, personally upset," but decided it was time "to move on."

But that was not the end. It turned out to be only the beginning. Following the decision the parish administrators told the school teachers and as best the women can reconstruct one of the teachers contacted a local television news channel. Word of the decision was soon flashed on local television and the story appeared the next morning in the Daily Camera.

"Within hours it was out to the entire community," Martha said. "The parents knew; it was the talk of the parking lot. This started on a Monday and by Thursday when I went to drop off our children I had people I didn't even know coming up to me and hugging me with tears in their eyes. We hadn't told any of them. It was spreading like wildfire. And it didn't come from us."

The women said there have been surprises along the way. One of the biggest was the amount of support they quickly received from parents at Sacred Heart school. "We have been around for years but just didn't think much about it and didn't think that it would be such an issue for so many," Mary said. "It meant a lot coming from this group of people."

Was this somehow about making a point on gay issues?

"People have suggested that we put our children in the school to make a political point or that we are fighting this battle and making our children political footballs. This is not the case," Martha insisted. "You are the first person we have talked to. We haven't spoken to any of the reporters who have wanted to speak with us. We value our privacy."

Both of the moms were born and raised Catholics. Mary went to Catholic schools from pre-school through 12th grade. Martha went to Notre Dame [UNIVERISITY???]. Mary's mother taught in a Catholic school system for 25 years. Martha's aunt was a Catholic school teacher for decades. "We have a lot of history with the Catholic school system. It is what we are familiar with. It is what we are comfortable with. We value what a Catholic education can do for our kids," Martha said.

As for Sacred Heart, the women say it has been good place for their children's education. They say they appreciate the moral foundation the teachers have provided. They say they support the character of Catholic education. They say it is very important to them that their children be provided with religious education. "We want our kids to learn about religion. We feel religion is really important. And they love it. They love God. They love their school. They love their friends. They love their teachers," Mary said.

The women take pride in the fact that their children like to repeat bible stories they learn in school. They say they encourage these stories.

Mary and Martha each gave birth to one of the children. Legally each has joint custody of both children. The women are not legally married. They have lived in Colorado for nearly a decade and Colorado does not allow gay marriages.

Each of the children was baptized by local priests, one who is in a neighboring parish and another who has been reassigned outside the area. The baptisms followed by months the publication of a 2006 statement issued by the U.S. bishops offering guidelines to ministers and parents of gay and lesbian children. The outlines suggest baptism for children of gays and lesbians, the women say, as long as there is a reasonable assumption that the children will be raised as Catholics.

"They asked if we would raise our children in the Catholic faith and we said we would and we have really tried to live up to that commitment," Martha said. "We take them to church every week. We switched to the Sacred Heart parish when our kids starting going to the school. We signed up and our money goes into the basket every week. Our kids go to Sunday school. We are making the effort."

Part of the disappointment for the women is that they feel the Catholic church is now not fulfilling its part of the promise to provide all the support it can in the raising of the children as Catholics.

Said Mary: "We are trying to live up to the promises we make to raise our kids as Catholics and now the church we made the promise to is sort of undermining our attempts to do so." They said they were shocked when a local priest suggested they raise their children as Episcopalians.

After being told their children could not continue into the elementary school, the women said they spoke with Sacred Heart pastor, Fr. Breslin, and were told they could continue to come to church and that the their children could come to CCD classes. They then asked what was the difference between CCD education and school education. "Isn't the doctrine the same?" they asked. They felt Breslin was not able to provide an understandable answer.

They say they are also troubled because behind the decision to forbid their children from going to the elementary school is a presumption about their personal lives and that no one ever asked them about what it means for them to live as a couple.

"No one has every asked us if we are celibates. How do they know we are not upholding official church teachings?" Mary asked. Meanwhile, other parish parents, they say, have been coming to them saying they are not upholding church teachings. Some have noted they are divorced and remarried without a church blessing. Others say they are practicing birth control methods contrary to church teachings.

Said Martha: "The frustrating argument for me is that our priest and archbishop are saying we are openly living in disagreement with the doctrine of the church. They are saying people who are divorced are not as open, but everyone knows they are divorced. They imply that we are flaunting our relationship. That is the last thing we do. We go to church as family. We never show any affection for each other in church. We are very private. But that's how the archdiocese is seeing it."

Bottom line, the women regret this whole incident has happened. They regret it not only for themselves and for their children, but also, they say, for the school. "This is unfortunate because Sacred Heart is a great school. Those teachers are dedicated and they are good. And the families are wonderful. It's just the people above. It's the administration that's the problem. I feel very bad that the school is getting such a black eye from this. It is a wonderful school."

The women also regret their children are going to suffer from the decision. Then they gave a telling example.

Last week they were driving home from school having just picked up their children in the car. Recalled Martha: "In the car, our older daughter was helping our younger daughter with words from the "Our Father." They were both trying to get the words right. Then they began the "Hail Mary" and we listened we had tears in our eyes. We were really sad about it because they are going to lose it."

The women say they have tried really hard not to let anger take a grip on them. At the same time they wanted, they said, to express their gratitude to the parents of the children in their classes and to the school teachers. So they wrote them a letter and emailed it, expressing their thanks, trying, as they could, to explain the situation as they best understood it. They also asked the teachers not to say anything "that could put themselves at risk for our benefit."

One point that the women wanted me to know and report is that they are not part of any gay movement. They are not activists. "You have never seen us at protests or marching in parades. We never intended to pave the way for gays in the Catholic church. We just wanted to be a normal family."

The morning after meeting with Fr. Breslin the women woke up to see their story on the front page of the Boulder paper. They were shocked and worried. So they immediately called Breslin and had him paged. They said they wanted to let him know that the leak did not come from them. "I actually called to warm him this was coming out. He needed to know," said Mary.

"All through this we have decided that we are not going to let our hearts be filled with anger and disgust and hatred. We decided we are just going to move on, take care of our family and we are going to be fine. The family is going to be fine and maybe bringing this out to the forefront of people's minds is going to have some positive effect. You can't let it drag you down."

Later, the women said they were working on a press statement and wanted to be sure I knew its last sentence so that I could report it. The sentence reads: "We will continue to raise our children with strong Catholic values and hold faith that through our actions, we are doing our part to create a more loving, inclusive world."

[Tom Fox is NCR editor. His e-mail address is tfox@ncronline.org.]

Stories in this series

The church higher-ups can

The church higher-ups can really get things mixed up!!! My prayers for this family and may peace come to them, their family and the Sacred Heart community.

The main reason why the get

The main reason why the get things mixed up is that they behave like, and are, autocrats.

ON a note speaking to church

ON a note speaking to church higher ups... I recently sat through a very long but joyful graduation at Regis University in Denver Colorado.. a Jesuit Centered college.. the speaches were long and not inspired but hte graduates were indeed joyful and hopefully well qualified for their respective degrees. in closing someone ( by then no once cared ) .. got up after the confering of degrees and went on and on about how this whole sex scandle problem centered in teh catholic church is a entire fiction and product of the media and we shoudl no longer pay aqttention to that man behind the curtain.. because he tells lies.. ( my edit )

the man behind the curtain is indeed the catholic higher ups.. wake up smell the bacon cfofee and the roses and udnerstand that WE are mad as hell and not going to take it any more..

thanks..

And this article shows what

And this article shows what the "gay agenda" term that the political right uses really is, that people of same-gender preferences want to live a normal life like everyone else and nothing else. We as a Church and society need to look beyond wedge issues which divide us, which are really not that much in the end and see how alike we are. This lesbian couple fits the ideal parent model in how much they care about their daughter and could not be raising her any better. Their sexual preferences are a non issue.

I hope Archbishop Chaput and the rest of the Church can learn from this couple and see there is no boogyman to be scared of. We need to work towards unity towards all in the Church and move beyond this faux political outrage towards the homosexual community in the Church and truly live up to the Universal in the meaning of Catholic.

Amen!

Amen!

Now, you tell me who are the

Now, you tell me who are the real Christians in this crisis! In this season of Lent, let all Christians pray for the Catholic clergy and hierarchy that they may have a conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ. Moms, God bless you and your two children!

God bless these women.

God bless these women. Contrary to what they say, they are "activists" -- they are Christians. Breslin and Chaput are not. These clerical miscreants are black hearted fools who believe this type of evil minded behavior builds up the Church. They should both be run out of town on a rail.

Ahh yes, name calling and

Ahh yes, name calling and threatening to run the Bishops "out of town", and you seem to believe this is the Christian response.

Yes, that's right. Just like

Yes, that's right. Just like Jesus ran the money-changers out of the temple.

No, the Catholic response is

No, the Catholic response is to run the moms, and their children, out of town.

The Christian response would have been to be part of the community in which their daughters were raised and the moms supported.

Catholic in this case, does not equal Christian.

If you reallyt look carefully

If you reallyt look carefully you will discover that most bishops are the least Christian of anyone!!

Have I missed something? I

Have I missed something? I didn't notice these mom's calling names. My name for both women is CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN.

I pray for Father Breslin. If he were to stand up to Bishop Chaput his life as priest within the RCC would be destroyed.

My prayers and best wishes also to the principal and teachers. Their lives and vocations will be adversly affected by this scandal.

Thomas Muldoon, Usually I am

Thomas Muldoon, Usually I am a bit wary of strong language, but your comment (These clerical miscreants are black hearted fools should both be run out of town on a rail.)seems to fit the occasion.

Cheers

david mapstone
Australia

With such an extensive

With such an extensive Catholic history, these well educated "mothers" simply need to state that they will strive to live as "celibates", to the best of thier ability, like any other Catholic living in non-marital situations, and this issue will vaporize.
Publicly claiming to practice lesbianism will not aid their relationship with the church, something that they knew far in advance of this drama. What do they expect a blessing upon their union? For that, they will have to go to the Anglicans.

"...and this issue will

"...and this issue will vaporize"??? Joseph, you really do not BELIEVE what you have written, do you?

Why would anyone have to

Why would anyone have to state that they are celibate? It is no one's business to know whether I am celibate or not.

Has it not occurred to you

Has it not occurred to you that the Diocese could have brought up the celibacy issue and insisted on an oath rather than expelling the girls? The fact that the diocese hasn't, and the fact that Fr Breslin could not articulate a good reason for the children to attend CCD classes in lieu of Catholic elementary school pretty much makes the case that the Diocese wants them out! The teaching is the same in both cases, so if they are not welcome to attend the school, why are they welcome to attend CCD classes?

I have a box of 256 color Crayola if you need me to draw a super clear picture for you.

The parish should require

The parish should require proof that they were not living together, not an oath, and that they publicly renounce their public sin before the two girls allowed to attend.

Mother Skadi what would your

Mother Skadi what would your reaction have been if the Church did offer the option of an oath of celibacy? Not only would an avalanche of condemnation be heaped on the church, but it is really up to the two "mothers" to initiate and propose such an option rather than forcing the church to provide an ultimatum. To enforce compliance of a celibate union is neither possible nor relevant to the church. At this point, a public statement that the couple will strive to live a celibate life to the best of their ability, will remove any impediments in the relationship. This would take a great deal of humility on the part of the two women, but it is after all, their own choice to identify with a lifestyle that directly opposes church teachings. Without such a declaration the situation remains a struggle between Lesbianism and all its connotations, and the doctrines of the Catholic faith, with the child caught in the middle. The choices are limited but it really boils down to how much the two "parents" want to participate in the Church verses the public recognition and support/approval of their own lifestyle choice.

Joseph, Did you really read

Joseph,

Did you really read this article? Really - carefully and thoughtfully? Your comment seems to indicate that you did not understand what the the article is really saying. Do you think you have grasped the situation of these women and what they are saying about it? I suggest that you give it a lot of prayerful thought - try to match it up with what you read in the gospels - especially all those passages that deal directly with women and with children. "Suffer the little children . . ." What is your take on that?

"Suffer the little children?

"Suffer the little children? C'mon, can we be more dramatic?

I do not understand the comments here. Our society is redefining morality in the name of civility. It is truly unbelievable. If these ladies did not admit they were in a lesbian relationship then there would not be an issue with the school or church. The Church did not commit to a "witch-hunt" but it was brought to their attention with the open admittance of their relationship, with an assumption no one would say a word for fear of retribution. Society today does not have a clear understanding of Charity. Admonishing the sinner is one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy and we are responsible in the end if we disregard this as an archaeic practice. "Get with the program! We're modern now!" This seems to be the popular saying among Catholics. Those who are proponents of homosexuality (the majority of those commenting here AND most assuredly the author of the article being he nicknamed the two women, Mary and Martha, sisters by the way) need a true examination of conscience. There are tenents, oberservances, teachings and practices in all Faiths. Am I being un-Christian as all of you will immediately respond to my "harshness" and cruelty to these two wonderful ladies? Absolutely not. As for homosexuality within the Church hierarchy that is absolutely sinful as well. The Pope has been very clear on this. These ladies "niceness" has nothing to do with the fact that they are engaging in a perverse relationship. "Hurting their feelings" does not fit within the true definition of loving one's neighbor. Read the bible and read up on the great Saints of the Church. They did not at anytime equate "hurting someone's feelings with Christianity. They never hesitated in speaking the Truth.

Joseph, I agree with you, if

Joseph,
I agree with you, if they were just two mothers living a celibate life together, their children would be allowed to continue in the Catholic school. The problem is they are living a homosexual life together. I applaud the courage of the Bishop and the local church/school there in upholding Church teaching.

Why is it assumed that they

Why is it assumed that they are NOT living a celibate life style? And why is it anyone's business? They are faithful, loving parents who are contributing members of society and trying to follow the law of the Church. Leave them alone and TRUST..................

God bless you Martha and

God bless you Martha and Mary. You show yourselves to be more Christian than those that profess to be the shepherds of the flock.

Amen. Indeed, when Jesus is

Amen.

Indeed, when Jesus is quoted in the Good Book as saying "I am the good shepherd", we need to remember the Lord was referring to himself, not to the Chaputs of this world.

Jesus encouraged his children to approach him, but the Chaputs quickly retort, "Not on my property!"

Shame on Chaput and ilk.

And Archbishop Chaput and

And Archbishop Chaput and Fater Breslin call themselves Catholic. Their action certainly is a long way from the teaching of Christ. If refusing to educate children under any circumstance is is condoned ten these people have drifted very far afar of the teaching and love of Christ.

The Christ in the Gospel I

The Christ in the Gospel I have told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more!

...And your point?

...And your point?

I think you should find out

I think you should find out what something means before you start trying to preach about it:

Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband

Anonymous states: "The Christ

Anonymous states: "The Christ in the Gospel I have told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more!"

So...you haven't sinned since your last confession anonymous?

Christ said when you break one law, your guilty of breaking them all.

Your sin is no less than theirs or anybody else's.

Are Chaput and Breslin even

Are Chaput and Breslin even Christian? Again we see with this story, and the story about the denial that Pope Benedict knew anything about the Church Sex Scandal, an implosion of the Catholic Church as an institution. This implosion comes from very poor leadership and it is getting close to big bang time. This institution will change for the better or the worse. With the current lack of good character in so many Bishops and the current Pope, it looks as if it will be many years before they will be able to gain ground and seen trustworthy when they speak of ethical behavior. Fathers the buck stops in the Vatican!

May the People of God gain peace and understanding as it becomes more apparent that the Priesthood of Baptism is the important one and that the clergy is failing us.

R. Dennis Porch, MD

Breslin is following his

Breslin is following his promise of obedience. Chaput is (or has) the problem. It is what we have come to expect from him.

I suggest that the archbishop

I suggest that the archbishop read and pray the Gospel and take on the heart of Jesus. What else can one say?

Thank you for this report. I

Thank you for this report. I am awed and humbled by the faith of these two women. I don't for a minute understand or agree with the actions of the school.

I totally echo your thoughts.

I totally echo your thoughts. When and where can we meet the real Jesus in our lives. I cannot believe the church today when the priest do not act like Christ. He was a suffering Christ who died for all. Do we seriously think we can begin to judge every household and begin to bar those that we do not agree with or judge sinful. What happen to looking at ourselves and casting the first stone. I am a former teacher of theology and I never taught the school children different beliefs about family than I did CCD. Times are changing.We need to make sure they change holding on to Christian Beliefs.

They just wanted to be a

They just wanted to be a "normal family". Normal can be many things, but a family headed by two homosexuals isn't one of them. Aren't they living in a constant state of mortal sin? How can practicing catholics explain this to a child when the child is old enough to understand the ramifications of homosexual co-habitation?

Really? Co-habitation?

Really? Co-habitation?

No, they are NOT living in a

No, they are NOT living in a state of mortal sin. There is clear provision in church teaching for dissent in conscience, just as there is for the 95% of adult Catholics who practice contraception. Are they also living in mortal sin? There also clear degrees of teaching, and this is not one of those at the higher levels that must be obeyed, come what may. There is room for disagreement on this matter, and a fair number of theologians are concluding that the traditional teaching is misguided, and should be reconsidered.

The irony is that in its public opposition to same sex marriage or adoption, the bishops squawk about the Church's right to "freedom of conscience" - but deny that right to their own Catholics.

Terence; You are deluding

Terence;

You are deluding yourself about the nature of sin and our conscience's role. There is no "wiggle room" on these issues. The Church is VERY clear about them. To oppose such clear teachings is willful (and probably prideful), therefore sinful.

The Church allows for us to

The Church allows for us to pray on, and to discern, and to act on the truth. As a Catholic who also happens to be lesbian, the most important thing I do is show up--for Mass, for Ministry, for prayer. It took me years to believe that God loved me, when it was the Church who acted indifferent and uncaring. Now, I am back to be one of all the sinners who Christ sits with at the table. If we truly follow Christ, we obey His Commandment--love God, and love one another. No judgment, no disapproval, no "stoning". Just love. I am truly saddened that the Archdiocese cannot obey this simple way of living in the faith.

Yes. Those 95% of Catholics

Yes.
Those 95% of Catholics are most likely living in mortal sin, unless they do not know that those actions are mortally sinfully. Which is likely since most priests don't bother to preach the truth of what the Church teaches for fear of being labeled "black hearted miscreants"

Not sure what church teaching

Not sure what church teaching you are refering to that allows a mortal sin to become a virtue. If anything there are cases were acts of grave matter can be mitigated due to circumstances into a venial sin. But never is an intrinsically evil act permitted, even for a greater good. You assertion that 95% of adults contracept does not make it OK. The number could be 99.9999% and they would all still be sinning.

Living together as man and

Living together as man and wife or in this case, woman and lover, without benefit of matrimony, has historically been termed fornication, and until very recently, has been referred to as "living in sin". There is no theological defense for such behavior either in the Chistian tradition, or in Scriptural references. In fact, virtually all Christian teaching specifically condemns such behavior,starting with the Apostle Paul who warned that those who are impenitent and participate in such activities "will not have eternal life". These are hard historical facts that no amount of rationalization can change. Yes, to have free will, ones conscience must reign supreme, but one also has to form ones conscience according to the truth as preserved by the church, or in the protestant tradition, of sola scriptura. It is important to make this distinction and to get it right especially if the stakes involve souls in eternity.

"It is important to make this

"It is important to make this distinction and to get it right especially if the stakes involve souls in eternity."

That is the question isn't it. When I look at what Jesus actually said we would be judged on, and He was very specific, that had to do with how we treated the poor. He did not say we would be judged on how we expressed our sexuality. I am seriously beginning to wonder if our conservative brothers and sisters aren't all hep up on these genital issues precisely to avoid the real requirements of the Kingdom.

Where is there a "clear

Where is there a "clear provision in church teaching for dissent in conscience" in the documents of the Catholic Church? You will be searching a very long time to find such an absurd notion.

Dear berg,                

Dear berg,                

You ask:   “Aren't they living in a constant state of mortal sin?”
.
Not necessarily…   and not any more or less likely than “cohabiting” heterosexuals.     Are you equally curious about heterosexual “ramifications” or as quick to make assumptions about the nature of their relationships?     Probably not.
.
Nosy speculation is first cousin to the mortal sins of gossip and calumny...   which sins St. Paul equates to the sins of murder and sexual perversion.     That places a lot of "good" hetero-Catholics in an interesting 'fix' in the 'sin department' while they castigate gays and lesbians over their living arrangements with a significant other,   eh?

berg1928 - Ask yourself, what

berg1928 - Ask yourself, what are the ramifications for ignorance, discrimination, hatred and no love or compassion for your neighbor whom you do not understand or love?

If the Church is excluding children from Catholic schools because of the supposed sins of the parents, the mortal sin is upon the mercilessness of the Church on children. This would not be the first constant state of mortal sin against children in the RCC as indicated by the revelations of pedophile priests and of bishops and cardinals harboring them and endangering and hurting our children and our families by doing so.

I feel for these two mothers. Their Church has failed to protect them and their children from the evils it accuses and condemns the rest of the world of. They are hypocrites! If the Church hierarchy will do these to these children and women, who will be next? People should not be complacent and believe for a moment they are without any sin. Will the divorced be next? Will those who use artificial birth control be next? Maybe the Church will exclude their children? Who will be left standing in the Roman Catholic Church?

Will you cast the first stone?

Ah, A.C.! Your words ring out

Ah, A.C.! Your words ring out like so many church bells!! It's the proverbial "elephant in the room". I don't understand those who 'cherry pick' and insist on their parochial idea of sin. Who will be left standing? indeed!

Thank you for speaking up. I

Thank you for speaking up. I am sure God is looking down on us with a very puzzled face. I'm sure as well He is asking Himself is this really the faith that I would hope my people would practice. He probably is beginning to wonder if we got His message at all.

Wow! All I can say is WOW!

Wow! All I can say is WOW!

WOW - that's MOM upside down,

WOW - that's MOM upside down, you know!
(BTW: It also means YES! in Wolof, which I studied briefly while teaching in Senegal.)

And exactly what are the

And exactly what are the ramifications of homosexual co-habitation? These two children have two mother who love them very much. That is what these two children know. It's far better than two children with heterosexual parents, who beat them for any little thing that annoys them!

What a pity that the

What a pity that the hierarchy has taken its collective eye off The Prize.

I sm do sorry for the girls

I sm do sorry for the girls and their mothers. The Catholic Church is forever doing itself harm by following the old rules written by men who had no life outside the church. These rules were written thousands of years ago and many are not loving but full of fear.

This is ridiculous. In the

This is ridiculous. In the 80's, my Partner and I enrolled six children in two Catholic schools in Portland Maine. we never flaunted our sexuality, yet we were not closeted. The children had a wonderful education, the families were great and the Sisters the best. One day the Principal called me and asked me to come in to speak with her. My first thought was oh oh! However nothing could have been further from the truth. We were named Catholic parents of the year and given a new encyclopedia! To this day that set remains in our living room as a reminder of true Christian love. Time to get on with living as Christ would and not as some would have us, fearful and divisive.

God Bless You. With the

God Bless You.
With the decline of love and care in our society and the decline of committed relationships. You have done what man (HUMAN) has been put on this earth to do................Thank you.

Totally awesome! At least

Totally awesome! At least Catholics in Maine show intelligence!

Wow these two women are real

Wow these two women are real Christians and once again the church has failed it's faithful. Will we ever learn? Hang on things will work in your favor and not the church. Just watch!

Dear Women: I am appalled by

Dear Women:
I am appalled by your situation. The catholic church of which I was a member for 50 years sends very mixed messages. I have a gay son who is married and they live a loving life. However they are looked at as disorded and evil by the Vatican and yet the church tells me as a parent to love my child. I love my son unconditionally and consider him a gift.
This church needs to examine the teachings of Jesus and put them into practice. Love and acceptance of all.
You are practicing the words of Jesus by not seeking revenge or holding any resentments. Your daughters are blest to have two wonderful women as mother.

Peace:
Kate Mcloughlin

As a former catholic school

As a former catholic school teacher, I am saddened to hear such a story. I applaud Martha and Mary for their courage, strength and faith. I pray that they continue to strive to live as a "normal" family and that they can instill their faith in their girls, inspite of catholic schools. Blessings to you and your girls on this journey.

Tom Fox, what a great and

Tom Fox, what a great and illuminating piece on these two good women. It is so apparent that their faith is strong and they want that faith for their children. And here is our Church closing the door on them. It is a sad moment in the American church. Paul Wilkes

As a teacher of 38 years and

As a teacher of 38 years and one who ran the before and after school programs at one elementary school we had a female couple who it was thought were gay and they had a chile. The natural child of one of the couple. It was a Catholic School but we never made an issue of it. I observed them as parents and they were excellent far better than the majority of heterosexual parents and this was not just my openion but that of the entire staff.

but Jesus said, "Let the

but Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Do not hinder them. The kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Matt, 19:14

It is too bad the priests and bishops of today couldn't have been around when Jesus was on earth to point out what He was doing wrong!

And Jesus wept.

And Jesus wept.

Jesus is still around-he

Jesus is still around-he hasn't left. He is present in the Eucharist, the Church is His Body and his Bride.

Praise God! The church needs

Praise God! The church needs to be supportive to this family as they should be to ANY OTHER family that is trying to remain a faithful follower of the Catholic Faith and raise their children in the faith.
Didn't the bible say:"Judge not, lest you be judged?". Start talking to and healing people, instead of fragmenting and hurting them.
God Bless these 2 human beings who are trying to live out their Catholic Faith.

man with black hat: If you

man with black hat: If you don’t, who will?

"[T]he children are not being punished. They are being spared the confusion that will follow if they get opposing messages from school and parents. And where the rights of parents and the natural law is concerned, the Church has no choice but to abdicate, lest She interfere with those rights ..."

And what shall we spare them

And what shall we spare them from with such opposing messages from a 'universal' church who speaks for many but thinks for few of the true faithful.

It must be 'later than I thought' because I just don't get it! Maybe if I read this response again in the morning it will somehow make sense. I must admit I am a little tired after another day in my 37 years as a teacher in the Catholic school system--sharing the message of God's unconditional love as the message of our Church. Coming home to this story of exclusion and condemnation makes me weary. It is, indeed, time for prayer...

I have responded at the blog,

I have responded at the blog, but I'll speak to it here as well. According to the mothers, Fr. Breslin offered CCD clases as an alternative. As the mothers noted, the teaching is the same, which means the same issue will arise in CCD classes since, so far as I know, those students don't get a pass on instruction about marriage and family. Thus opposing messages will be delivered regardless of venue. So why boot the girls out of school? Who is really being protected here?

Yes, Thank you. I think you

Yes, Thank you. I think you make a very good point. If someone have an answer of it, I be interested to hear it.

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