Catholics, Mormons defend religious freedom together

Cardinal George plays "nicey-nice" with one of the largest "cultist groups" in the US while harassing New Ways Ministry that is trying to reach out to gay and lesbians the way Jesus would.

That all sounds good but if these churches continue to attempt political intervention in a government which separates churches from the state, then they MUST loose their tax status. The early founders were correct on their insistence of separation of church from state as these churches are both authoritarian in structure. If we wish to have a society not run by the filthy rich to maintain most of the people as the dirty poor, we must look to make society far more democratic than it is today. If we are a society struggling to have an ever increasing middle class, it will only be accomplished through a more democratic structure. Small oligarchies with totalitarian leadership have never been very successful to propel a democratic society. The reason for this is that they in fact are not believers in democracy but only in authoritarian leadership. What they want is control and this always begins with economics.

Society is more successful when based on ethics and its ability to grow and develop as conditions warrant.

Cardinal George sickens me. He states those who "have gay people in their families, as I do...have to be there for them and love them." Sure - but don't accept them into the fullness of the church or treat them as being made in the image and likeness of Christ. Cardinal George obviously thinks gays are to be pitied. What is pitiful is a church whose hierarchy is moving backward in its beliefs and practices.

What was that somebody posted the other day about Jack Kennedy saying bishops are republicans? Provo Utah, gay marriage, and abortion?

As for catholics not being able to sing, the Cardinal should be happy; you'd think he'd be sick of "One Bread, One Body", "On Eagle's Wings", and "Gather Us In" by now

True religious freedom means not just freedom to worship or "individual conscience rights as long as you don't make anyone unhappy," but the right to "influence the public square," he [Cardinal George] added.

Cardinal George has so badly missed the point...it isn't hurch or religious institutions/structures as such which are to influence the public square. It is each individual person whose heart has taken on the "mind" of god whose very life will influence the public square...it is the individual's way of life, influenced for the good by a religion or encounter with "the Other" who will cause good in the public square.

Gandhi, Dorothy Day, Dag Hammerskjold, Thomas Merton, et cetera, were such an influence NOT because they were part of the power structure of a religious institution, but because they lived their faith.

Politicial power is not the job of any church/religion...

"When the government fails to protect the consciences of its citizens, it falls to religious bodies to defend them," he said.

Sounds like a dictatorship to me. The gov'ts function is to assure our freedom - personal and social... Freedom of religion being the very first American political platform. Freedom of Religion. Not my Christian or else. How can institutions of spiritual wellness and social peacemaking be addressing a hugely diverse American cultural and religious population with their own doctrinal regs? And getting followers....fear (and laziness). Moral consciousness develops from the inside out. Its the Love and Logic of parenting taken to the social/political level. Balanced morality is not established through fear and social regulation. ...its a bit Pharasitical, no?

Pray tell...how does Cardinal George reconcile baptism for the dead, and arranged, abusive marriages for pubescent girls and religious freedom? Please, kindly ask him, to share with this readersip his thoughts on those topics.
"It was a tremendous feeling of awe and power and great satisfaction"-"something of an ego trip"...are we hearing themes for last Sunday's gospel???

Right on, Cardinal George! Was there only one standing ovation? Had I been there, I would have stood to cheer the remark: "those who have gay people in their families, as I do ... have to be there for them and love them." What wonderful honesty and compassion!

Congratulations to the Elders of the Mormon Church and to Cardinal George on this brave effort to confront radical secularism. How about getting the "separated brethren" together to do the same? America's soul depends on it.

Wow! Would a leader of the Mormons receive an audience of the same size at an institution like Georgetown or Notre Dame?

Ah, yes, praising the Mormons where the MOST Prozac is sold than in any other state in the union. Women are the biggest users there. So the Church and the Mormons are praising each other. Figures.

Orwellian Double-think:

...to defend marriage as the union of a man and a woman.

Let's see now: denying same-sex couples the same civil marriage rights as opposite-sex couples is a defense of "religious freedom."

From where I stand, it seems to me more like imposing our religion on other people, but then again I never got the whole "we had to destroy that village to save it" argument, either.

Since they all have a similar negative attitude toward gays, they should feel right at home together.

think you'll enjoy this about the LDS

With all the groveling to various fascist groups to see when it happensby the rightest leadership,something like this was bound to happen. Nevertheless it is shocking to see when it happens. At least the cardinal knows an ego trip when he is having one. George has any number of groups to visit and praise now that he has reduced morality to abortion and marriage. He might start with Muslim fundamentalists who do more than stand strong, they blow-up those pesky secularist. If he wants to stay home there are numerous white supremacist groups in fellowship with him, hey his new buddies in Utah can give him their numbers. Sure we can pal around with our new friends, but never forget they think the Catholic Church is the tool of Satan, we are all going to burn in hell, and they are prone in pinch to think about killing us and every one else who does'nt agree with them. Old George could end up a saint, this kind of thing worked for pius x11.

Some Mormons are more Catholic than some Catholics.

Strange bedfellows.

Although the Vatican is generally downplaying inter-religious dialogue in favor of cultural dialogue, it is interesting that Cardinal George is so eager to cooperate with a non-Christian religion (Remember, the Vatican ruled that Mormon baptism is invalid as are many of their beliefs which are not "Christian.")

Unlike the Vatican, I strongly favor dialogue. However, I find it interesting, and distressing, that the "cooperation" is over abortion as a political strategy. I believe any religious community has the right (and duty?) to express its teaching in the public square.

However, both the Mormon's and the Catholic hierarchy have really become high-powered political lobbies spending millions against gay marriage and exerted enough power to slow down passage of health care legislation.

So it goes.

What this means is they really want to keep as much political muscle as possible (for good or maybe not so good, dependin gon your point of view.)

Has the Church stopped considering the Mormon Church a "cult"? If so, when? Or is it that this is simply a case of politics making strange bedfellows? Mind you I have nothing against Mormons or their worship but as a child I was taught that Mormons, although they call themselves Christian, do not recognize the divinity of Christ as our savior, and hence were to be avoided.

"When the government fails to protect the consciences of its citizens, it falls to religious bodies to defend them," - I'm sorry, isn't this what separation of church and state is all about? Hasn't it been the responsibilities of churches to develop and protect consciences? When did they cede this responsibility to governments?

Perhaps the Catholic church in America should spend more of their time and money on good youth and family support programs at the parish level (especially for non-Catholic school students, K-12), instead of round-the-clock "Right to Life" marches, diatribes and taking over Social Justice programs as the only issue. When Catholics feel that their church walks-the-walk on ALL Social Justice issues (we don't hear much about war or death penalty since they're not warm or fuzzy) and that CYO serve not just the inner cities but the outlying communities that support the programs financially, then the consciences will be fully developed from within and Faithful Citizenship will be de facto.

Abortions will not happen because ALL young men will have good male examples, and education to obtain jobs to support the families they create. Put your money and efforts into raising strong men and government policies that empower them. I guarantee they will overwhelming choose to support financially the women who conceive and the children from the conception.

My suggestion to Cardinal George: read

Under the Banner of Heaven by John Krakauer.

You deserve a great reception among the Mormons. Christians stand together but Mormons aren't Christians. Mormonsim is not a religion for that matter. So Cardinal unite with whomever you want, anyone who agrees with you. It really doesn't matter so long as they agree with you. Catholics, all, once believed LDS were a cult. Cardinal George you are in good comapany.
Perhaps you can seek out atheists who want to advance your political agenda.
Not that I want to downgrade atheists.

God warned this is a time of great deception and both sides and all religions need to see if they are following according to the word of God. In 2 Nephi 29 God said, Woe unto those who want no more "Bible"; God said He has spoken to all nations and commanded them to write it and it will be found to be the same. I have seen the evidences.

***The Qur'an says to live by the Torah and Gospel and all God sent. (Qur’an, Ahmad. #s: 5.68, 69; 42.14-16; 3.56)

***Jesus said to live “by every word out of the mouth of God.” He said, “Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.” He said, “If they believe not Moses and the Prophets, neither will they believe though one rise from the dead.” (Matthew 4:4, 7:21, Luke 16:31) God’s will is mostly in what is called Torah and Prophets or Old Testament.

***Oriental religions are told to do all things according to God's law and to follow all Puranas; the Bible is a Puranas.

***In the Gita, Krishna is Christ, the "Personality of the Supreme Godhead."

***Bahai Bab “recognize the radiance of the Sinaic splendour.” “Thou Supreme Word of God” (Chapter XXVII, XCIV, LII, XXXI)

The Ten Commandments of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 command not to make images, not to bow down to them. It commands a 7th day Sabbath of no work for anyone. It is a weekly reminder of the 7 days of creation. Other Sabbath directions in other holy works confirm God's word; and the prophets have misinterpreted the Sabbath commandment. Muslims are told to leave work on Friday (Sabbath begins Friday sundown). Latter Day Saints in D & C where told to honor God's appointed day of rest; since they received it on Sunday, they thought Sunday was the Sabbath. Deuteronomy 4:2 God commands not to add or take from His word.

God's blessing for purity be uppon you. Amen.

How short memories are. Up until recently Mormons had no love for the Catholic church--here's what the famous Mormon elder Bruce R. McKonkie had to say in his commentary on the Book of Mormon

"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization.(McConkie [1958], 130.)

Then speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, he [Nephi] designated the Catholic Church as ‘the mother of harlots’)"

So now we join, under the astute guidance of Cardinal George, with the anti-union, anti-immigrant, pro free market big business Mormon Church. Instead of waging war for poor children, for defenseless immigrants, for thrown-out-of-work poor people we join forces with the Mormons---McKonkie would be so proud of this transformation of this abominable church---Cardinal George should be ashamed of this abomination

This is where the Catholic leadership has to go in order to find "like minds". Perhaps the church will start accepting "disaffected" LDS members/clergy.

Politics and religious intolerance make strange bedfellows — “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
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"Mormon doctrine diverges from the orthodoxy of established Christianity,   particularly in its polytheism,   in affirming that God has evolved from man and that men might evolve into gods,   that the Persons of the Trinity are distinct separate beings,   and   that human souls have preexisted."   (Encyclopedia Britannica 2006)
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Apparently Cardinal George has no problem with Mormon divergence from the core fundamentals of Christian orthodoxy as expressed in the Nicean Creed,   when speaking at their Mormon university.     However,   Mormons and Cardinal George agree on theocratic government and who they are "against",   — the submissive role for women in marriage,   exclusion of women from the clergy,   opposition to abortion access (with no medical exceptions),   opposition to equal civil rights for gays and lesbians,   opposition to same-sex civil unions.     It’s a peculiar trade-off that merited a standing Mormon ovation,   while George enthused that he was "doing better with Mormons than Catholics".
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Perhaps a better title for this article should be:   "Catholics,   Mormons defend religious freedom only for people who concur with the primacy of their cultural issues."     Concerns for the basics of orthodoxy regarding Creator God,   and humans as divinely created beings,   or the teaching in the CCC (n.1782 & others) regarding religious freedom for all persons and freedom of moral choices,   ...not so much.

Great picture. All men. Just the way the men who run the Catholic Church and the men who run the Joseph Smith cult like it.

What Mormons are taught about Catholics is in #121:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon_shorts.htm

As an orthodox Catholic who finds himself at odds with many of the comments made by NCR readers, I find myself in complete agreement here that a Cardinal of the Catholic Church should not share a stage with Mormons. The reasoning may differ as to why, but this gives great scandal to the Church.

ANY port in a storm...
"Taliban Cardinal" George strikes again.
Memo to the Vatican:
1st: Anglicanorum Coetibus
2nd: Lutheranorum Coetibus
3rd: Mormonorum Coetibus..
Keep the welcome mat handy for any and all groups who espouse misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia and just about any other type of corporate bigotry that's out there. Assure them that they have found a HOME in the Roman Catholic Church.

Uber conservative cultist George embraces uber conservative cult Mormons. Joe Smith and Briggam Young, of 1800's the Mormon bible dictated on gold tablets, which got immediately "lost" revelations of the " angel Moroni" a cult of polygmists... considered aboriginals, American Indians, as the lost tribe of Israel of North America, they being 'dirty Jews' to the Mormons. Pathetic racist and misogynist Mormon cult. Blacks were also mistreated and could not be elders or pastors till very recently (if even now.)

Mormons is a faulty strange sect that has polygamy still happening in many Mormon communities. We saw this recently a year or two ago on the news, robotic women including child brides who were multiple wives since being girls of the Mormon cult leader. As the boys matured to puberty, if they survived birth (girls as future child brides of leader were preferred) the leader used the boys for labor such as farm and building construction of his compound, as the boys reached marriage age they get driven off and dumped out of the compound as to not compete for the girls and women. Some pals of Curious George. Just more bigots and misogynists for George to pal around with. Anti-gay, anti-women, racist company for George. What is happening to the Catholic hierarchy under Benny XVI (and PJPII). PBXVI makes George leader? a bishop? Yikes!

Fire , laicize, impeach C. Francis George. He admires Mormons does he? Obviously he is ignorant of their ideas about religion and their beliefs and practices, other than the shared ugliness he holds with them of hating gays and women, and hating genuine religious freedom.

George's idea of religious freedom is his freedom to hate others and to restrict and control others, like gays and women. He should not be a cardinal in the church or even a priest. Jesus weeps.

Two religious sects standing together for religious oppression and church homophobia.

"Defending religious freedom"? You can't be serious. What Cardinal George wants is a political alliance with Mormon leaders to fight such things as gay rights, including those of Catholic gays. Allying with Mormons to defeat fellow Catholics? This is the type of thing the bishops have been doing on many issues of late. Apparently, this is what the politicized USCCB has come to. Nothing good will come of it.

It's not surprising that rich right-wing fundamentalist religionists who propose the same Republican political agenda, who take the same extremist philosophical positions (women's reproductive rights and gay-lesbian civil rights don't exist and never will!), should find comfort in each other's company.

Not surprising at all. George represents himself and his fundamentalist buddies. He neither represents all Catholics of Chicago nor the Catholics of the Chicago parish where I worship.

I'd love to know how much money from the Archdiocese of Chicago has gone into these pet Republican campaigns of George's. When the Archdiocese begged for bucks a couple of weeks ago, this information was (shock!) not included. Somebody is footing the bill. Who?

Cardinal Right Wing George crawls into bed with Mormon right wingers. Lovely. Two right wing forces working against women's equal rights and the rights and dignity of glbt people. The opposite of Jesus and a disgusting show of arrogance and lack of respect for the dignity of women and other human beings who do not agree with Catholic and Mormon Fundamentalists who spew such crap. It doesn't surprise me that George would move in this direction but it points to his hypocrisy. George is a stellar Republican for the far right elements in the Catholic Church. Nauseating!

How does my ability to go to city hall and marry the person I love suddenly become an attack on the freedom of anybody's conscience. This freedom of religion deal is a clever public relations campaign. In Canada gay folks can marry and the churches still function fine there. Cardinal George and his friends are leading the US down a slippery slope.

I get a kick out of these self-righteous, quick-to-judge friends and their comments...Along with their suggested scripture verses, maybe they should ponder Mat. 5:43-48.

Roman Catholicism and LDS are cults. Roman catholics worship a piece of bread called the eucharistic jesus. Based upon on the teaching of the Roman church regarding intention there is no way anyone can be certain that the bread and wine are changed by the priest into the Body and Blood of Christ. Therefore, it is probable, that Roman catholics have and continue to worship a piece of bread. To deny this is intellectual suicide.

Any religious group that threatens damnation and/or excommunication to any segment of its membership for eating, drinking, marrying, or failure to attend religious rites is a cult. The doctrines and practices of the Roman religious system, such as purgatory, the priesthood, the mass, transubstantiation, prayers for the dead, indulgences, penance, worship of the Virgin Mary, the Assumption of Mary, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the use of images in worship, holy water, rosary beads, celibacy of priests and nuns, the papacy itself, and numerous others, are not found in the Bible.

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary. Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god. Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works.

Joseph Smith: "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I" (D.H C., vol. 6, p. 408-409).

Brigham Young: "Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the Moon? ... So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the Sun. Do you not think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No Question of it; it was not made in vain." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 219).

C. George liked conducting the choir at that tabernackle and his mom was a church organist. However he is embracing Mormon values. I am interested in religion and different denominations, faiths. I studied Mormonism and met with Mormons. A giant problem here is that Mormonism is based on 'revelations' given to its founder, as dictated by him on 'golden tablets' which he promptly 'lost'. The founder saw native Americans who lived near towns and cities who had intermarried with Europeans, and the Mormon founder concluded they were " Jews,lost fallen tribe of Israel" and that Jesus had come to United States. It is a racist cult, which barred black people too from being elders or pastors up till very recently, and is anti-women, anti-homosexual, and Mormons even re-wrote the bible in its own wierd Mormonic image. George has aligned himself with racist, homophobic, misogynist unChristian sect. Sorry, that's not good at all.

Very odd title "Mormons,Catholics ''defend religious freedom"".

NO --- because George and Mormons DENY religious freedom to gays and women.

George and Mormons DENY women ordination and respect, deny women service to God, deny dignity, value and ordination to homosexuals who will not be hypocrites.

So really George and Mormons Deny religious freedom, not 'defend' it.

Hey, thanks Alpha for posting ex.mormons.org and its #121 The Great Abominable Church, what Mormons teach about Catholics.

The funny thing too is the Mormon cult writers keep calling the Catholic church the Whore, the great harlot, the abominable whore. The joke is on them for in the geneology of Jesus harlots and whores are listed, like Rahab the prostitute and heroine of the Old Testament is a maternal ancestor of Jesus.

Further Jesus had no contempt for the woman of the city, who anointed our Messiah, and who he asked us all to never forget to honor her. Jesus had great praise for another so-called 'whore' or 'harlot', the Samarian woman, who Jesus was so delighted in as she apostlized to Samaria so very effectively. Looks like sex is not a taboo for Jesus. Looks like those Mormon writers of long ago taught a lot of nonsense condemning harlots and whores, or name-calling Catholic church as abominable whore.

Hey, thanks Alpha for posting ex.mormons.org and its #121 The Great Abominable Church, what Mormons teach about Catholics.

The funny thing too is the Mormon cult writers keep calling the Catholic church the Whore, the great harlot, the abominable whore. The joke is on them for in the geneology of Jesus harlots and whores are listed, like Rahab the prostitute and heroine of the Old Testament is a maternal ancestor of Jesus.

Further Jesus had no contempt for the woman of the city, who anointed our Messiah, and who he asked us all to never forget to honor her. Jesus had great praise for another so-called 'whore' or 'harlot', the Samarian woman, who Jesus was so delighted in as she apostlized to Samaria so very effectively. Looks like sex is not a taboo for Jesus. Looks like those Mormon writers of long ago taught a lot of nonsense condemning harlots and whores, or name-calling Catholic church as abominable whore.

If these churches are so politically active (paying to defeat human & gay rights, etc) shouldn't they be paying taxes like the rest of us? Let's remove their tax-exemption status.

IT IS JUST SO PROFOUNDLY SAD THAT CARDINAL GEORGE SO VALUES THE POLITICAL ALLIANCE WITH LDS THAT HE FAILS TO SEE THE TRAVESTY OF JOINING FORCES WITH SUCH A "RELIGION." IT JUST DEMONSTRATES THAT HE HAS NO CONCEPT OF THE PRINCIPLES AND VALUES OF ROMAN CATHOLICISM. HE WOULD RATHER ALLY HIMSELF WITH EVIL IN ORDER TO EXERCISE POLITICAL POWER THAN FOSTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. EVEN IF HIS PRIORITIES WERE CORRECT (WHICH THEY ARE NOT) WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS? OUR CHURCH IS SO VIBRANT AND ALIVE AND CHRISTLIKE -BUT OUR HEIRARCHY IS SUCH A LAUGHINGSTOCK.