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Female power and the power of God
by Jamie L Manson on Feb. 12, 2009
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A few summers ago at a conference on the prophetic voice, I heard a well-known priest tell a story that gave me an insight into the depth of harm -- both to God and humanity -- that the ban on women's ordination has created. He was celebrating Mass on a pueblo in New Mexico. To honor the culture of the people gathered with him, he used a tortilla for the eucharistic bread. This got reported to the diocese, and the priest received a call from the bishop's office. The chancellor asked, "Is it true that you used a tortilla at the Mass on the pueblo?" "Yes," the priest said. The chancellor replied, "I hope there was no baking soda in that bread!" The priest responded: "Are you telling me that if there was baking soda, God ceased to be present in that bread? Are you really going to place those kinds of limits on God's power to work in this world?"
I'm not sure why I'm surprised, but each time I read an NCRonline reader's comment that denounces the notion of women priests, I'm struck by how deeply distressing the issue of women's ordination is of some of our readers. The excommunication of Fr. Roy Bourgeois offers a painful reminder that these convictions are very much in line with the governing authority of the Catholic church.
There are many levels at which these comments and excommunications are disturbing. They are laced with deliberate misogyny and a complete, unkind lack of regard for half of the church's population. But what is, for me, most exasperating about this searing opposition to women's ordination, is that it is a rejection of faith in the power of God to work in our world. By banning women from serving as priests, the church is saying that God simply cannot work sacramentally in the body of a woman. The church places limits on God and God's own capacity to work inside God's very own creation. Now, not only does this demonstrate a cosmic level of chutzpah, it also runs completely contrary to good, centuries-old Catholic sacramental teaching. There is a fundamental Catholic belief that all of creation -- all finite things existing in the world -- are capable of revealing infinite meanings about goodness, holiness, and God. By barring women from ordination, the church suggests that God is incapable of working through the body of a woman because it does not match the bodily design of Jesus and his disciples.
The irony is that the ban is also a rejection of the life and work of Jesus. Throughout the Gospels, we are given account after account of Jesus' encounters with women of extraordinary faith. In John's Gospel, the Samaritan woman is the first to inspire followers of Jesus (4:39), while Martha, sister of Lazarus, makes a confession of faith in Jesus that is unparalleled in any of the four Gospels (11:27). These exceptional women demonstrate great faith while the disciples, particularly Peter, continually misunderstand Jesus' teachings (4:33; 11:12).
Those who denounce the ordination of women ought to be reminded that their intense love affair with conformity with the church stands in direct conflict with the life of Jesus and a fundamental principle of sacramental theology. Their appeals to doctrines and canons and catechisms are sorrowful evidence that the power of the church has a much greater hold over their hearts and imaginations than the power of God. church teaching has been made into an idol, while the work and witness of Jesus and the continually unfolding revelation of God's work in creation goes largely ignored.
I know that I am not alone when I say that I have grown weary of the church's blatant fear of female power. It is no secret that women are the fabric that holds together the Catholic church in this country. They are the teachers, the principals, the liturgical coordinators, the family faith and outreach ministers, the pastoral administrators and associates. Many of them have educations far superior to most current Catholic seminarians, yet still, they cannot preach the sermon or consecrate the Eucharist because of their bodies. Though they hold the master of divinity degrees and years of ministerial experience, they still cannot baptize the baby, or give the second grader first Communion, or marry the couple (though they do all of the sacramental preparation work!), because of their bodies. Though they have more passion for the poor and the broken than many of the priests with whom they work, they cannot anoint them or grant them absolution, because of their bodies.
Often I am asked by older Catholics why there are fewer and fewer young women in the pews. I explain that newer generations of women are not compelled by a tradition that excludes them from acting with religious or spiritual authority on the basis of their physical form. I cannot stress enough how isolating and disempowering it is to a woman's spirit not to have ever seen her own bodily form stand behind an altar, place her hands in the waters of a baptismal font, or offer last rites at the side of the hospital bed.
The more I become painfully acquainted with the exclusion of women, the more I become aware of a relationship between the rejection of female power and the rejection of the power of God. In order to allow women the full dignity to which they are entitled as leaders in the church, those who are in power would have to be willing to make themselves vulnerable to change, to being surprised, to being moved. But, if we read the scriptures and truly open ourselves up to experiencing God in everyday life, we know that our God is a Being who loves to constantly re-attune our vision, a God who lives to surprise us with paradoxes, a God who always leads us into unexpected places. As believers, we must always be prepared for God to pull the rug out from under us, the way Jesus did with the priests and scribes.
The most mournful repercussion of the church's treatment of women is the increasing multitudes of people who are being left hungry because of the exclusion of women from the ministerial priesthood. In alienating the many women who, like Jesus, long to give of their bodies in service to God, an ever-deepening chasm is created between the hungry and the God who longs to feed them.
(Jamie Manson received her master of divinity degree from Yale Divinity School where she studied Catholic theology, personal commitments and sexual ethics with Mercy Sr. Margaret Farley. She is the former editor in chief of the Yale magazine Reflections, and currently serves as director of Social Justice Ministries at Jan Hus Presbyterian Church, working primarily with New York City’s homeless and poor populations. She is a member of the national board of the Women’s Ordination Conference.)
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis basically, once again, said 'no, there will never be women priests, and that's final.'
In spite of this, some modernist Catholics seem to be under the impression that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis wasn't an infallible document. To put that myth to rest, here is the update that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith put out.
*****
CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
October 28, 1995
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: In the affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
*****
So, are we all clear now? Excellent! Let's move on to other topics then. There is no further debate to be had on it.
Mike, NO we are not clear
Mike,
NO we are not clear your answer to complex theological arguments by quoting church scripture is another circular argument that holds no water, no substance. Obviously you did not read the article. The church can pronounce all it wishes but will never speak with the authority of God- she can speak for herself thank you and needs no old celibate men to (nor other frustrated men in general)to make their words and opinions her own. The truth lies in the conscience of every catholic who realizes that the church must repect those who hear God's call to priestly ordained ministry and give them that sacred right that God has bestowed. The catholic church will never speak for God until it allows God's people to live as they are created and called. No latin words can speak to the truth as long as they are uttered by fools and charlatans. Amen.
"The church can pronounce all
"The church can pronounce all it wishes but will never speak with the authority of God."
- No, YOU didn't read what I posted. Holy Mother Church has spoken with the binding and loosing authority given Her by Christ. She has said, INFALLIBLY, that there is no way the Church can ordain women priests. It is part of the deposit of Faith. End of discussion.
"The catholic church will never speak for God until it allows God's people to live as they are created and called."
- Translation: 'The Church can only be right when She matches my beliefs.' The inability to ordain women is part of the deposit of Faith. While you're throwing that out, is there anything else you would like to throw out of the deposit of Faith, on your authority?
"No latin words can speak to the truth as long as they are uttered by fools and charlatans."
- They are 'fools and charlatans' because they do not submit to the theology of Rev. John, eh? I do not presume to hurl invective at the Holy Father like you. What did Christ say in His time about the WORST charlatans of the time? Here is your assignment, Reverend: go get your Bible, open it to Matthew 23 and read first several vereses.
Your theology is bankrupt. You don't have a leg to stand on. You refuse to submit to Church on matters of Faith. If you are a priest, this puts you in a very dangerous position, as you are no doubt aware.
Mike, Not having the power to
Mike,
Not having the power to ordain women does not mean that the Church will never have this power. To state that the Church will never have the power to ordain women is to go much further than Ordinatio Sacerdotalis actually teaches.
This teaching is not infallible because it does not meet the Church's criteria for infallibility - Cdl Ratzinger has stated that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was not Ex Cathedra and neither was it by the bishops dispersed because the bishops dispersed were never polled and many bishops actually support ordaining women.
You will find the truth by sticking carefully to what the Church actually teaches.
Hope this helps.
God Bless
Well, here's what Ratzinger
Well, here's what Ratzinger ACTUALLY said:
***********
November 8, 1995
The publication in May 1994 of the apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was followed by a number of problematic and negative statements by certain theologians, organizations of priests and religious, as well as some associations of lay people. These reactions attempted to cast doubt on the definitive character of the letter's teaching on the inadmissibility of women to the ministerial priesthood and also questioned whether this teaching belonged to the deposit of the faith.
This congregation therefore has judged it necessary to dispel the doubts and reservations that have arisen by issuing a responsum ad dubium, which the Holy Father has approved and ordered to be published (cf. enclosure).
In asking you to bring this responsum to the attention of the bishops of your episcopal conference before its official publication, this dicastery is confident that the conference itself, as well as the individual bishops, will do everything possible to ensure its distribution and favorable reception, taking particular care that, above all on the part of theologians, pastors of souls and religious, ambiguous and contrary positions will not again be proposed.
The text of the responsum is to remain confidential until the date of its publication in L'Osservatore Romano, which is expected to be the 18th of November.
With gratitude for your assistance and with prayerful best wishes I remain,
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
************************************
HERE BELOW IS THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT
************************************
CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
October 28, 1995
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: In the affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
****************
QED Sullivan. The debate is over. This will not change.
Unless, of course, the copy YOU have of this document has the words "JUST KIDDING!" at the end, which I seriously doubt.
There is no further debate
There is no further debate for you, but there are those of us who consciences are bothered by the exclusion of women to the priesthood. I believe that it is the the right of people like Jamie to speak her conscience.
Mike in KC- You might want to
Mike in KC- You might want to look into the difference between something taught infallibly and something taught definitely. The non-ordination of women is taught definitively, not infallibly.
The Holy Father has declared
The Holy Father has declared the issue closed forever. It belongs to the depost of Faith. What part of that is hard for you to grasp?
Women, laymen, and even
Women, laymen, and even non-Christians can all baptize "in extremis". This has been the teaching of the Church from the medieval period, if not before.
Moreover, the Church has not limited God's divine power but God Incarnate, Christ, during his time on earth did not Himself choose women. Nor can it be argued that He was constrained by social norms. As the author herself points out, God's power is infinite so to say that Christ was constrained by social norms may deny the Incarnation and Trinity. Secondly, we know that Christ routinely broke social norms anyway through his interactions with sinners and tax-collectors. If He had wanted to ordain women, He would have. His choice may remain a mystery, it may irk some, but it is not our perogative to change it.
Enough already with the
Enough already with the whining about women priests. Your argument is as silly as someone complaining that men are not allowed to become nuns. Women can no more become priests than men can become mothers: Please take the time to meditate on why the Church has said that it is an impossibility for women to become priests.
If these ladies really wanted to serve God's will, and not their own personal whims, they'd listen to what the Church has said about the matter. Mother Teresa never whined about becoming a priest, since all she wanted to become was an instrument of God's grace--and she let God write a beautiful story with her life. The problem with those women who want to become priests, is that they want to make a point about what they confusedly see as womens-rights, instead hearing God's call to get busy with a real genuine vocation which God intends for them.
Mother Teresa maybe was not
Mother Teresa maybe was not called by God to be a priest, other women are, have been and always will be. I bet you also wanted Jesus to stop whining too about the injustice he saw. You cannot know the content of their hearts,and the call God makes on their conscience. Disgraceful.
There has been official
There has been official rebuttle to this whole issue, multiple time. Prove, OBJECTIVLY, that the Church, to which Christ gave the power of not teaching error when teaching on a matter of Faith and Morals, HAS committed error here in this matter, which She has declared to be part of the deposit of Faith.
Don't just throw out platitudes and talk of feelings, PROVE IT.
Show us why Reverend John is so much more wise and so sure of his position that he is willing to defy the infallible teaching authority of the Church of Christ over an issue of Faith.
Ladies, what we need in the
Ladies, what we need in the Church are more Mother Teresas, not disobedient members who follow their own whims. Women are not called to be priests, just as men are not called to be women. There are stubborn people who think they know better than God who go as far as having a sex change to achieve their selfish desires. If these ladies who want to become priests really want to serve God with all of their heart, mind, and soul, they should either become a religious nun, or become mothers. What great privilege it is to bring forth new children into existence through motherhood. How silly it would be for a man to whine about not having the right to get pregnant. There are those who live to complain all of their lives whining about this, that and the other instead of rolling up their sleeves and actually listening to God's voice, which we hear through the teachings of the Church.
It's a wonderful, deeply felt
It's a wonderful, deeply felt article, and to those who think 'feelings' are nonsense, what is faith in God about then? A bunch of rules set out by a bunch of old men? Where is the 'proof' that God even EXISTS???? A bunch of rules set out by a bunch of old men? Just because the Second Vatican council declared that women can not be ordained, that does not make it the word of God. The phrase 'founded upon the Written Word of God' is ludicrous, since God did not write anything, not a word of the New Testament is written by Jesus, many gospels have been left out of the Bible which was cobbled together long after the time of Jesus, and there is plenty of 'proof' that women did lead prayer. But misogynists are not interested in anything that doesn't jive with their lust to keep priestly power for men. There is something incredibly wrong about the fact that not a single priest who has been convicted of pedophilia has been excommunicated but bishops have been excommunicated for ordaining women. What does that say about the Holy Church?
"many gospels have been left
"many gospels have been left out of the Bible"
- Sorry Dan Brown, try again. Care to name a few of them for us? Or is that list absent from the talking points you memorized?
"The phrase 'founded upon the Written Word of God' is ludicrous, since God did not write anything, not a word of the New Testament is written by Jesus"
- So you deny the inspired nature of Scripture? Does that include those parts the Church believes were written by women too? Or are you JUST going to throw out what was written by men?
"something incredibly wrong about the fact that not a single priest who has been convicted of pedophilia has been excommunicated"
- Again, your ignorance of the Church is breathtaking. Why would they be excommunicated? Which doctrine or article of the Faith have they publically denied? Do you even know the PURPOSE of excommunication? More to the point, do you even know WHAT it is?
"bishops have been excommunicated for ordaining women."
- Because they directly denied something that is part of the deposit of Faith. Research your ideas instead of just regurgitating talking points, ok?
"What does that say about the Holy Church?"
- It says that, just as Christ promised, the gates of Hell have not, and shall not, prevail against Her.
Feelings cannot replace
Feelings cannot replace reason nor duty. A mother may not "feel" like getting up at 4 a.m. to tend to her crying newborn, yet a good mother willfully gets up despite her feelings. There are mothers who choose to ignore their newborn cries. Those who base their faith in God on "feelings" have built their house on sand. True faith if tested when there are no feelings to comfort you. That's the classic case of the "dark night of the soul" which all saints went through. They trusted in God despite feeling dryness of spirit.
Regarding proof of God's existence, this has nothing to do with feeling or faith. We come to the knowledge of God's existence through reason. Much like you reason (with logic beyond a doubt) that a mind typed the arranged letters which you are currently reading. It takes FAITH however, to trust in Jesus Christ. I can believe in your existence simply by reading your post, however it's quite another thing to have faith in you and to trust you without doubt.
Jesus Christ revealed that he is God made man. He backed his claim with miracles which thousands witnessed. He also fulfilled over 470 prophecies regarding the promised messiah. Christ established His Church and promised that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church through the ages until the end of time. But he also warned about the many who would come and teach error and lead many down the path of self-destruction.
The problem is that there are many who have reduced their "faith" in God to "feelings". This always leads to disaster, and those who practice this folly will fall away eventually. Jesus Christ said:
"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."
Feelings has nothing to do with following truth. As for being a true Christian, one must always remember that Christ clearly stated that those who wish to be his disciples must deny themselves, pick up their cross in life and follow him to calvary. The road to calvary preceded the resurrection.
I really appreciate, Natasha
I really appreciate, Natasha your response and i also deeply felt same your way. I really appreciate your thinking and your approach.
70-290
It's always helpful to read
It's always helpful to read what many catholics believe. Ms. Manson, you're bright, your write with passion, and you have an ability to weave together many points to make an argument seem plausible. But, unfortunately, you have misunderstood this issue.
Often, our opinions, and hence our beliefs stem from feelings which do lead us astray. It happens to all of us. God knows this, Jesus came to help us fight this, and in order to keep us from error, discord and disunity, He did leave a teaching body safeguarded by the Holy Spirit to guide us in all ways of Truth, and to bring us back to this Truth.
Sometimes this Truth is hard to swallow. That's where Faith comes in. Not feelings, or 'a bunch of rules set out by a bunch of old men' (Natasha), but FAITH - the giving of our WILL to God and to the constructs of His Revelation given to us in His Son and handed on in His Church, even when others, our feelings and our mindsets tell us something differently (just ask St. Paul!).
In this way, we are absolutely being like Christ who was humble and obedient, even unto death, and who came "not to do His own will but the will of the One who sent Him." He came to give His Body (His Life)according to His Father's will, and to teach us to do the same rather than complain about what one can or cannot do because of their body.
And, yes, our bodies ARE sacramental. Precisely because of this fact, there is meaning to our maleness and femaleness and to what we do with and in our bodies. A male ministerial priesthood does not take away from the power of women or what JPII called the “feminine genius,” but rather complements their gift to Christ’s Body, the Church, His Bride! Have you ever really wondered why Jesus chose 12 men? He did not have to, for more women followed Him more faithfully…
Maybe, dare you accept it, it IS in God’s Will.
He prays in His agony, "Not my will, Father, but yours be done.”
When we pray and think like this, especially when we feel "isolated and disempowered", then we begin to see the Wisdom of Christ present in His Church and in His Church's teachings.
It is not about male power or female power or even the power of God.
It is about His loving humility, His holy obedience, and yes, His Will.
This is where our true dignity lies.
Often, Ms. Manson, the change needed is not in those we are calling to change, but in ourselves.
I pray you have a holy Lent.
In Mary’s heart,
Fr. Marc
Well said, Fr. Marc. You have
Well said, Fr. Marc. You have a lot more patience in dealing with this than I do.
Well said.
Okay, so what leadership
Okay, so what leadership positions do women hold in the church outside of priesthood or besides their orders? Maybe if they did, we wouldn't have the cover up scandals that have plagued the church.
The following lines from Mike
The following lines from Mike in KC sums up patriarchal thinking;
You refuse to submit to the Church on matters of faith. If you are a priest this puts you in a very dangerous position.
The Inquistion made similiar statements before burning people at the stake.
Well, I suppose that if you
Well, I suppose that if you can not win an argument based on theology and fact, while being faithful to the teachings of Christ's Church, I suppose all that is left for you is to shriek "PATRIARCHY!!!!" and cover your ears...
If you are to accuse anyone of patriarchy, accuse God the Father, who created the ALL MALE priesthood in the tribe of Levi. Accuse God the Son for making only men His priests and bishops.
In short, tell it to the Man upstairs...
The "Man" upstairs... let me
The "Man" upstairs...
let me say a couple things, Mike
God created some creatures male and female
(some were created as asexual--meaning they reproduce on their own, without the distinction/dicotomy male/female.)
Physical gender is a part of the creation, not the creator.
Here's a thought experiment for you.
You find a new species, only one specimen. How do you know if it's male or female? You can't tell by looking--you need to observe it with others of it's kind or disect it.
God is only one of a kind. And I would suspect you have enough revernce for the creator not to (attempt to) disect God.
Many saints refer(ed) to God in a femenine form.
Many bible passages speak of God in this way too, as a woman in labor, as a mother nursing her child, as a woman searching for a lost coin (that last one was one of Jesus' parables, btw). Wisdom is constantly portrayed as a woman in the OT and a corelation is drawn between Wisdom and the Holy Spirit of the NT.
I fear that your reference to the Man upstairs is not a simple word choice. It apears to stem from a patriachal and mysogenistic attitude. But I don't know you and I can't know your heart, so I can only say this is how it APEARS.
Another thing--where do third gendered individuals fit into your supposedly "catholic" worldview? Do you mistakenly believe they are "freaks of nature" the product of a fallen world, the influence of the devil? Some of us are born this way. God created us this way. Holy Mother Church emphasises the gift of every child, even if they don't conform to the standards of our worldly society. You would not dare label a Downsyndrome child as a freak. They are gifts of God. Both conditions are simply products of a chromosomal difference. But you would, by the language you use, discriminate, persecute and push these people out of your church. Where do third-gendered individuals fall into your dualistic worldview of what vocation is? This is my challenge to you--remove the plank from your own eye first, please.
As the author herself points
As the author herself points out, God's power is infinite so to say that Christ was constrained by social norms may deny the Incarnation and Trinity. Secondly, we know that Christ routinely broke social norms anyway through his interactions with sinners and tax-collectors. If He had wanted to ordain women, He would have. His choice may remain a mystery, it may irk some, but it is not our perogative to change it.
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