A bottom-up approach to Bishop Finn's indictment

It may seem like a minor point, but Finn and his top aides didn't "fail" to report suspected child sex crimes. They refused to do so. . .

Bill, the hierarchical system is part and parcel of the Catholic faith, and will never change. If the Reformation couldn't do it, it's not going to happen now. The only choice that Catholics in the pews have is to find a new church, because no matter how much they complain or even withhold money, they will never have a say so in the management of the Catholic Church.

The hierarchical system as practiced in the RCC has lead the hierarchical clergy into thinking that they not only serve God but that they ARE God.

Bill,   you raise a good point.     Our Roman Catholic system of governance has more in common with European monarchies and royal exceptionalism than with any sense of Christian faith community wherein everyone is accountable to the community,   including its leaders.     The early apostles were accountable to the larger community,   and those leaders did not live like royalty...   but after the time of Constantine everything changed,   and not for the better.
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Up until Pope John Paul I,   newly elected popes were "enthroned" and "crowned"...   and carried about in parade fashion by the papal Vatican courtesans.     Our current pope has a fondness for all of the trappings of royalty in both attire and ritual.     The visuals tell you all there is to know about who matters and who doesn't in the RCC hierarchical system.     Cardinals still vow their allegiance to the pope   (whom they elect)   and maintaining Vatican secrets...   with no mention of their duties to protect the members of the larger Christian community.     Unlike state monarchies who sexually reproduced heirs to their kingdom state,   the Vatican monarchy uses an asexual/"self-pollinating"   (in a manner of speaking)   vetting and grooming method of male heir selection — you must have the right connections and a Y-chromosome to get into that fraternity and move up the royal career ladder.     It's a strange alternate universe of power, loyalties and "morals",   and that pretty much explains Finn's behavior and priorities.
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We had a brief window post-V2 during which we might have actually reformed our corrupted system of governance,   but the power-players in Rome would have none of it...   and so we are embarked on a retro-trend to the middle ages.     To this day suspicions of Vatican foul play shroud the premature death of Pope John Paul I,   the last hope of real reform.     Most Catholics view their experience of church in terms of their own local parish and pastor...   Were that not the case,   the exodus of demoralized Catholics leaving the Church in desperation would be much higher.
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As always, we have to be careful of what we wish for...we've all seen the results of that. However, having said that, it would probably be better if new bishops were elected by the faithful, albeit not by the election process we use in our political system. I could see a committee of lay, religious and clerical people representing the diocese in this process. The reason is that most "pew potatoes" don't really have a clue of what to really look for in a bishop. It would be interesting to create a "questionare" for potential bishops to be used throughout the US...a sort of vetting process. Questions like, "Will you represent the concerns of the people of your diocese to Rome?" Granted, a broad question, but then we could have a say in what Rome "hears" from the people. Several specific questions come to mind. Married priests? Yes. In dialogue with the bishops this question could be better positioned if the bishop had to deliver the desires of the faithful. Another one is celiac desease. Science has moved forward. Why not rice wafers for the hosts? I have not found anything in scripture that indicates that unleavened wheat bread was used, only unleavened bread. Wheat and barley were common. Why did we make the case for unleavened wheat bread only rather than just unleavened bread. Did St. Thomas find wheat in China when he went in the first century? I'm thinking not and rice was used. Unleavened, probably, wheat, probably not. So if we create man-made rules, can we not alter them appropriately? What bishop today would (has) take this to Rome for discussion? And yes I understand that Christ is present in both the Body and the Blood, but the meal was both, fully shared with all. What happens if we offer the "bread" in the form of unleavened rice? I never read where Christ said "Take this unleavened wheat bread and do this in memory of me." So, maybe we need to figure out how to elect bishops that represent both the church and the people. It doesn't mean that everything that everybody wants will happen, but that's ok. We are all the Body of Christ and we should all be a part of a living, changing church.

Pure and simple, the hierarchical structure of the Roman Catholic Church IS feudal. You have the king ( the pope elected only by those in conclave, chosen by divine right, also know as the Holy Spirit), you have princes (cardinals), vassals/lords (bishops), knights (priests) and last, AND least, the serfs, subjects (People of God). We still refer to cardinals as Princes of the Church, we still show respect by bowing or kissing the ring of a bishop, cardinal or pope. The clergy continue to dress both liturgically and professionally in attire (cassocks) from the middle ages. Many today are seeking a return to the use of Latin in the Eucharistic liturgy. The Church is still advocating ideas, beliefs and opinions from past centuries (celibacy, all male priesthood, birth control, etc.). When any of those who may be in subservient positions question those beliefs, ideas or teachings, then they are deemed threatening at least and a heretic at worst. The people (serfs) who work the land (parish) do not own it but are expected to tithe, in fact, unless they are in positions on the finance council of their parish or are members of the parish council then they have little or no say in the operation of their parish.
This is the 21st century, when problems (sexual abuse crisis, episcopal cover-ups, loss of trust, lost credibility, financial mismanagement) arise in an organization or institution, regardless of how long it has been in existence, and is not equipped or unwilling to resolve or remedy the very issues which threaten it, then it will begin to implode and inevitably disappear. The Church has been unable to regain its credibility as more and more instances of sexual abuse come to light on every continent. The subsequent cover-ups have not abated, Austria, Ireland, Italy, Germany, Colombia, Australia, Philippines, Spain, Canada, do I need to go on? Please do not cite the Charter in Dallas as a remedy and solution because we all know that it hasn't been uniformly applied or followed (Kansas City, Philadelphia).
I know, I know, many of you might say the Church will NOT disappear and quote me numerous assurances from our Lord which indicate as such. But this much I do believe, if the Church does not welcome and embrace the change that is necessary for its survival than I can assure you, it will perish. Witness the mass exodus of those who once attended mass on the weekends, the number of parishes which have been shuttered and sold and the decreasing numbers of priests. Slowly, begrudgingly and some times yelling and screaming, it has changed, but change it must. This law of nature is eternal, take it from Heraclitus, "there is nothing permanent except change".

Bottom-up is a bad phrase to use when discussing Catholic pedophile priests.

The Catholic church doesn't practice the words and laws of it's own God, so they aren't God's church, and should be treated like a business or a government.

Imagine if Finn was the CEO of a Chucky Cheese Restaurant, and an employee had child porn pictures that he took of children inside Chucky Cheese. Management knew about it, but hid the pictures and allowed the employee further access to small children. Then it was discovered that Chucky Cheese had been raping thousands of children for years (in the U.S. alone) and hiding it.

Customers would boycott Chucky Cheese and have every manager thrown in jail, all the way up to the CEO.

We can't expect the Catholic church to rise to the standards of Chucky Cheese, but they should at least have to follow the basic laws of humanity and the laws of the land.

We need more Catholics like Bill. Oops, Bill is not Catholic. We need more Catholics who THINK like Bill. Unfortunately, just like with the Wall Street protestors, the 99% can call for change all they want but the 1% who are the self-proclaimed and self-selected "leaders" will do what they want. The Catholic faithful will never be able to take the action necessary to make things right, so it is now in the hands of secular authorities. And the hierarchy will find that their ecclesial powers are ineffective against truth and justice, whether in the U.S., Ireland, or wherever. We can only pray.

When church officials contend the media is ignoring sex abuse issues in other denominations and in public life, I can add this article to my file of responses. Short answer is that almost all other denominations have tools to use to deal with the errant cleric -- 51 of them in the Presbyterian faith if I understand correctly. Few if any of those groups have simply moved the offending cleric from place to place hoping for a better outcome.

I suppose if it were more Presbyterian we wouldn't have anyone to blame. It would make it easier that way.

Sir, there is an unfortunate and no doubt unintended double entendre in your headline given the nature of the crimes and photographs of the child pornography involved.

Bishop Finn is charged with a misderanor. The whole thing was supposedly about some photos of some priest that in the first instance were declared by some police man and a lawyer to not quite measure to child pornography. Later on after some therapy of the depressed, suicidal priests more photos were found with the priest that did constitute child porn.

As I understand it no child was put in danger.

I do not understand what all this extreme fuss is about.

Maybe the majority of the Catholic people in the diocese do not want Bishop Finn removed, irrespective of whether Bill Tammeus, a Presbyterian elder of the Presbyterian Church USA (which now accepts openly active homosexual ministers) and a writer for the Kansas City Star Newspaper (an anti-Catholic rag) wants it?

Imagine no religion. Its easy if you try. No one to kill or die for...

I agree with you, Bill, that the bottom up system allows the people in the pews some say on who their leaders will be, whereas the top down bears comparison to the master/slave relationship. The only ways Catholics have to respond to this present crisis are to withhold money (which people are doing in significant numbers) and staying away, which is evident more and more each weekend. It is very sad and frustrating. But let's make changes in the Roman Missal and none of those silly people will even notice what laws the bishops have broken!

Before the Lord saw fit to punish us with the papacy of JPII,pedophile protector and enabler, there were people involved in the process of selecting a bishop. Before Bill McManus became bishop of Fort-Wayne South Bend back in 1976, a questionnaire was distributed to some lay Catholics (my brother got one) about the qualities the new bishop should have. Imagine that.

McManus was very interested in the viewpoint of the laity and had a Diocesan Lay Council. As soon as he retired in 1985 and Jack D'Arcy was appointed that disappeared and the new JPII type of autocratic bishop who had no interest in input from the laity moved to center stage in diocese after diocese much to the regret of many.

"Before the Lord saw fit to punish us with the papacy of JPII, pedophile protector and enabler..."

That is a pathetic, almost deranged way for anyone, but particularly a Catholic, to discuss anyone, but particularly one of the most beloved popes of recent memory and a Blessed in the Communion of Saints.

Articles and people on sites like this talk about empowering the laity and respecting their needs and ideas, and that is how you refer to a man who was Vicar of Christ on earth for 26 years?

Yes, this is the way to gain cooperation and trust with the hierarchy, acting like an "Occupy" protester, doing more harm than good, spreading hatred and misunderstanding.

Maybe Jesus should have left selection of the 12 apostles to His disciples, and open to pharisees just to be inclusive.

Michael in Abu Dhabi, only one mild photo was described to the off duty police officer, the hundreds of other more egrarious photos were not described or shown to the officer. This is MINIMIZING, COVERING UP, WITHOLDING EVIDENCE.

Therefore all your attempts to minimize and distort the reality of the seriousness of what was on the computers Ratigan used are not credible.

Omitting evidence, ignoring evidence, minimizing the abuses, condoning the offences are disgusting and unworthy of the Roman Catholic faith.

Karen Stigers, it is anti-Catholic to try to cover-up and minimize the continued sexual abuses against our children.

CAROLYN DALTON, JP2 was an avid supporter enabler of clerical abusers like maciel dellagado, legion of Christ founder, JP2 ignored forty years of victims complaints about him. See Jason Barry's excellent documentary, award winning, and book about this.

JP2 and Prefect Ratzinger sent out written directives, as reported by ABC news and other world-wide reports, to silence victims, move predators about, cover-up the priests sex scandal.

It is Anti-Catholic to distort and mimimize the truth about both JP2 and B16, both clerical priestly pedophiles enablers. Why do you think this scandal is so pervasive and demaging to the Church and still continuing? The people at the top, both recent past and now , are also guilty of enabling these crimes.

Ironicly, "cafeteria catholicism" makes some of these awful situations a little more bearable. That is to say that Finn and his ilk can be largely ignored. Finn et al can't start an inquisition. Only you know what you believe. Likewise, they can't force you to support them financially. Assuming Finn doesn't resign wither or not he is convicted, he will soon be considered as little more than another "emperor without clothes."

How pitiful that Gumbleton was immediately removed on orders of Rome after he spoke in a diocese other than his own in support of increasing the statute of limitations period for persecution of child abusers. What is immoraal about that? Yet Bishops not removing abusers - Rome does nothing. Where are their priorities - loyalty to Bishop's fiefdom rather than caretakers of the little ones? What is it Scripture says about beware of harming little ones? Matthew, Mark and Luke all report the same teaching of Jesus, "whoever would harm one of these little ones, it would be better for him if he had a heavy weight fastened about his neck and be thrown into the sea" - or similar, depending on which translation you are using.

The problem is that we have been trained for centuries to accept what the pope/bishop/father tells us as absolute gospel. What happens when father is a pervert? We have, for well over a millenium, limited our leaders to a minute slice of the faithful, namely, so-called celibate males. How many of these over the years have been truly celibate is now in question. This has to change, but in the Catholic faith, in which I have been raised and served for many years, takes not years but centuries. In today's times, that is totally unacceptable. I haven't left the church yet, but I am close to doing so.

To my friend from AbDhabi I have a few comments. You are trying to pour oil
on very troubles waters. None of the charges against Reverend Mr. Finn are in doubt. He has in fact, confessed to his dereliction. You might also be well
advised that ignorance is seldom accepted in our U.S. Courts. However, it is
as a certified computer fonensics analyst I would offer you the following.
Tampering with evidence is seriously frowned upon here. The Bishop actually
gave the computer to the priest parents to destroy. I would think the tech
who discovered the porn was deficient if well meaning. He should have called the police not give the unit to the Bishop. Had the bishop been of a more criminal sort, and he was not, he could then have totally destroyed the unit and would have been able to deny it ever existed. You need to know what was
really losst by not having the computer to analyse. Totally apart from the
images in question, there may also have been many hidden images on that
computer. Also, the metadata available to forensics could have shown links and
emails and connections to other people which can help law enforcement do their
work more completely. Also possible due to the actions taken was the missing
of other materials which would be more readily recognised by experts in the
acquisition of evidence. To my mind the most serious charges could have been
the ones assocoiated with deliberate evidence tampering. I am sure the holy man got the 'lets be kind to father' treatment. Had it been you or me we would have been treated very differently. Not only have you demonstrated a
belittling attitude toward the abuse of children, your grasp of the serious nature of the whole crime involved is miserable. I am happy for you in a strange way for your ability to be unperturbed by this disgusting and very
scandalous event.
In God we trust, in Bishops Meh!
Cheers, TomC.