Reactions to 'No Girl Servers' in Phoenix story

What business does the Women Ordination Conference, a non-Catholic group, have in telling a Catholic entity like the Phoenix Cathedral what to do about anything at all to include altar girls?

What do you expect from Olmstead et al after the fiasco with Saint Joseph's Hospital?

No, this is great; will hasten the demise of this corrupt sexist feudal monarchy!

And of course, Rev. Lankeit, received approval and permission for his stance from his boss, Bishop Thomas Olmsted.

Just because one is a server for Litugy, does NOT mean that they want to prepare for the priesthood. I personally know several older gentlemen who were altar servers as boys. These men married and became fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers. And while they look back on their service as altar servers with joy and pride, they did not see this service as a preliminary to their entering the priesthood.

This position of the Diocese of Phoenix is misogynistic and twisted. Parents of girls who were/are altar servers should be outraged. And parents of boys who were/are altar servers should be wary. Their young sons in elementary school---could be pressured to enter the seminary---BEFORE they are mature enough to take such a step.

Bishop Olmsted and Fr. Lankeit should be roundly criticized for turning the Cathederal of SS Simon and Jude (which is a parish church), into a minor seminary

I just mailed a letter of support to Father Lankeit and one to His Excellency, Bishop Olmsted.

Meanwhile, I wonder if anyone has bothered to read that, though, Father Lankeit no longer will permit girls to serve as altar servers, they are being trained as sacristans (an equally important role in the liturgy, charged with care of the vestments, sacred vessels and sacred spaces in the Cathedral, and charged with preparing for the Mass and other liturgical services at the Cathedral)?

I wonder if anyone has bothered to note that Father is working with a local contemplative religious order to offer girls an opportunity to "come and see" what life is like at their monastery?

I wonder if anyone has bothered to note that this order of sisters is offering the girls an opportunity to learn from the sister who was the head sacristan at the order's mother house?

I'm sure that neither NCR nor the Women's Ordination Conference (contradiction in terms, I know) has taken these facts into account prior to their attacks on Father. Facts cannot be allowed to get in the way of ideology, can they?

I think the whole issue is inordinately dumb. If Rev. Lankeit's decision has no bearing on any other parish or community, then his decision reveals not only its absurdity but its waste of time and thinking. Has he nothing better to do with his 'sacred priestly ministry'? Is this what "other Christs" worry about? It is so blatantly and patently sexist, narrow, and inane. Will his unilateral decision increase the inspiration of young men toward becoming priests? Does God call young men with the enticing caveat that "only you can be altar servers?" And to have the Women's Ordination Conference issue an "action alert?" Isn't there anyone taking the church serious these days?

While relevant to the "women's ordination" issue this movement has more profound and perverse implications. First, it would be naive to assume that this is either a local pastor or archdiocese matter. It is inextricably linked to the "reform of the reforms" and attitudinal perspective that is likely sychophantic but definitely expresses the "politics" of the Church at large.

The profundity of perversity,regardless of the rationales, justifications and pr, is that this is an expression of the wider church's definition of women as chattel who would preferably, like Mary, be willing. The stripping of her feminin humanity and simul elevation to icon of plaster and false piety is as schizophrenic as its pietistic rhetorical response while protecting child sex abuse facilitators in the hierarchy as well as abusers.

It is, or should be, abasely,humiliating, that we catholics, dissenters and dutiful faithful, have allowed this to persist as the backbone of our church: absolute authority of an exclusively male,(in theory) sexless clerical caste. If one looks at the issue in the obverse of "exclusion" and prohibition we would see that it actually defines women. One realizes that in "our Church" women are less than "breeding stock", they are "the gates of hell". The toleration of women is the former; the latter necessitates their relegation to plaster and pietistic or enforced subserviance.

Humanity has a history of misogyny. Mary's "yes" was the historical call to end it and recognize that the mystery of inclusion in redemption and priesthood was to all and for all, equally unworthy, equally invited.

Is revereand Lankeit aware that the mother of Jesus was a woman? She may have conceived by the Holy Spirit, but in all other respects she is woman. She stood with Christ at the Crucifixtion; she walked the path with him during his passion. How does the reverend Lankeit think Jesus feels about women not being allowed to minister during the re-enactment of His sacrifice on Calvary; of women being scorned by His alleged followers who wear the Roman Collar?

Sigh. I will always remember the time when a small altar girl whispered shyly, "Father, I think I want to be a priest."

I wish to make a proposal that should resolve all the lingering tensions within the Catholic Church between orthodox Catholics and 'spirit-of-Vatican II' Catholics. I suggest that Pope Benedict XVI and all Catholics who wish to join him, surrender all the institutional organs of the Church (buildings, parishes, universities, all property, the Vatican itself, Catholic publications, etc.) to the 'spirit-of-Vatican II' Catholics to do with as they please. Give them absolutely everything they want. The Pope and his orthodox followers could then quietly practice the faith in house churches free of all the wealth and trappings of 'churchiness' which are so coveted by the 'spirit-of-Vatican II' Catholics. The 'spirit-of-Vatican II' Catholics would then control all the levers of 'Church' power as they have always demanded. They will hae everything ... except the successor of Peter; we orthodox would keep him, but nothing else. He, and the Christ of whom he is the vice-regent, is all we need.

Thirty-five years ago, the parish I worked in began having female altar servers. I was the person at the parish council meeting who suggested that we should not have girls in that role until the Catholic Church ordained women as priests, that it was giving a false impression of equality. Just wanted to be thought-provoking, not rail against girls as servers.
One of the reasons I heard against girls as servers over the years was the argument that once altar serving was not "special" and reserved for males only, like high-paying professional sports, boys would no longer be interested in serving. Voila! girls serving singlehandedly reduced the number of male vocations to the priesthood by reducing the number of altar boys, AKA likely candidates to the priesthood.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesjscanlon/sets/72157627241910949/detail/

our Roman Catholic Cathedral in Ciudad Jaurez, not a month ago, as every Sunday at the packed mid day Mass

One of the main reasons to have alter boys is to prepare them for the priesthood.

In the original article on the new policy Rev. Lankeit made an additional comment that "girls could be trained as sacristans" instead.     Huh?
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As a Catholic woman who is a regular sacristan in a large basilica parish I can assure Lankeit that such service is not some sort of "woman's work" consolation prize for getting the boot from a "real" service at the altar in liturgical worship.     Without the service of well-trained sacristans there could be no reverent celebration of the Mass.     It is not separate and inconsequential to worship,   nor is it merely a "dishes and linens" job for the ladies — there is MUCH more involved and a lot of responsibility — something you must truly love and be committed to in order to do it well.     It's not something you are 'stuck with' as second prize "female work".
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Thankfully,   the priests of our parish appreciate the extent of what we do,   the time,   knowledge   and the dedication required...   and how much they depend on us to get the licit details of set-up and problem-solving right so they can pray,   vest   and celebrate Mass without distractions   (in large parishes like ours that amounts to two daily Masses all week long and multiple weekend Masses,   plus wedding and funeral Masses,   with one member of our small sacristan team assigned to each Mass in rotation).     Sacristan duty is a 'first choice' calling to service that is open to both adult women and men.     It's not what you get after being cast-off from altar service or some other ministry deemed to be "more important" or exclusively "male only".     Most Catholics in the pews,   and apparently some clergy like Lankeit,   have no idea the extent of what sacristans do or even who they are,   as long as Mass runs smoothly and reverently start to finish.     It's all taken for granted that it somehow spontaneously happens no matter how elaborate the Mass...   but nothing could be farther from the truth.
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In the process of trying to justify his decision to exclude females from service at the altar during Mass,   Lankeit has managed to,   by implication,   demean the very important contribution made by sacristans who are called to a ministry in its own unique right.     There are a diversity of gifts and callings — if a person is called to service at the altar that is where they belong;   if called to service as sacristan that is where they belong.     It’s not blithely interchangeable based solely on a priest’s or bishop’s retrograde personal gender preferences for altar servers.     Messaging is important,   and the messaging from Phoenix is consistently rather lousy.
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This is wonderful news. It seems that since girls have been allowed to serve, the number of boys serving has been drastically reduced. Serving at the altar has been a positive influence for boys to choose the priesthood for their vocation. I hope this change spreads throughout the Church!

I have a friend who's son refuses to be a server because his sister is one and he says she's too bossy.
Need I say more? Pushy women are partly the reason we have less priestly vocations. There are other reasons too, of course, but ever since Eve wanted to be like God, we've had nothing but trouole.

I applaud this move wholeheartedly and say its about time. Women do not need to be altar servers to "grow up to serve the Church". There is some confusion by some in the Church today as to the particular roles of the faithful at mass, this is an effort to clarify that confusion and I hope it spreads like wildfire.

I agree with paulte, where does a HERETICAL group of people get the yarbles to tell the One True Faith what to do and how to do it? If we start listening to these priestesses, why not start listening to Jehovah's witnesses' doctrine about the Trinity? Why not start listening to the Anglican church and let married and openly homosexual men/women into the priesthood? These women "priests" are so misinformed that they are willing to gamble their salvation for "equality?"

I would like to think that God's equality goes beyond that of our definition. Any and all priestessess and catholic priests who ordain these heretics should immediately be excommunicated.

If a boy would be attracted to becoming a priest merely on the basis of no girls being present as altar servers, do you really think that this boy would make a good priest?

You know you're doing something right when the liberal, heretical CINO's (Catholics In Name Only) come out against it.

You go, Fr. Lankeit! You have a spine and maybe, someday, you'll be a good bishop like Bishop Olmstead! The Church needs good bishops with spines!

It's time for the parents of boys and girls to keep them ALL away from serving as altar servers. This inequality is unacceptable but until the laity takes action by NOT PARTCIPATING in the discrimination, by NOT AIDING AND ABETTING the behavior of a power hungry patriarchy, nothing will change.

In many parishes girls outnumber boys altar servers, including my own. Boys are not encouraged to serve by the priests or religious teachers. Another reason is that parents have not put importance on altar serving for their boys. It comes down to a lack of trust and a lack of faith and inconvenience.

Would someone, anyone, please tell me why this Church which has had so many women, countless numbers of them who have led the most courageous and inspiring lives, who have given birth, who have fed, nurtured and sustained the weak, wounded and the hungry, heroines who have sacrificed their lives for the Gospel, why is the Church so terrified of them? Why does this Church continue to insist that are not worthy of priesthood? Please do not insult my intelligence and raise the favorite arguments of Scripture and Tradition, if these were the only basis for determining Catholic moral behavior we'd still have slavery.

There are over 30,000 protestant denominations where those wishing for female priests, pastors, etc, can go. Please go!

Now I understand why vocations to the priesthood have diminished so. Women are not only the "gates of hell", relegated to servitude and excluded from priesthood they are the ruination of the clerical caste. Down with secular feminism, down with women.... I am still at a loss to understand what "Christian feminism" is and how a male only "expertise" can define it.

All I can say reading peoples responses to these actions is that Arch Bishop Chaput was dead on when he said the Catholic Church is a whole lot smaller than what it seems. There are a lot of people professing the Catholic Faith that should be professing the faith of self. These self worshipers need to quit trying to mold the Church into what they believe and making it something it is not but instead start living the teachings of the Church.

Shame on those who are attacking Fr. Lankeit, if you want to worship your own ideas then leave and go plant your own church like so many protestants have done. The reason for this is because of decades of poor catechisis. To straighten things out there are going to be a lot of people who worship their own ideas get upset when they are taught what the Catholic Church really teaches. Things like - men and women are different because God created us that way so no matter what we believe we cannot change this fact. These are things the Church actually teaches. These same people that complain about this are many of the same that complain the world is going to hell in a hand basket because men are trying to be like women and women are trying to be like men. Should we start crying because men can't become Nuns?

When these poorly catechized people learn the truth they are going to be upset just like they are about this decision as attested to in the responses above and below. Hang in there orthodox clergy like Fr. Lankeit, we are praying to God for you.

Without female servers at my parish, it would be very difficult for our priests. They outnumber the boys and always show up faithfully. There is one priest who will not "allow" girls to serve at funerals, and at these times, it is very embarrassing to send the originally scheduled female servers packing. The recent Holy Thursday enactment of the footwashing allowed only the boys from our grade school, even though girls outnumber the boys in the grade school as well. Since this symbolic re-enactment of the footwashing is not a sacrament, what possible theological justification can there be for it? Is it not our souls that are more important to our humanity, worth, value, and dignity than our genitals?

As I look around me at Church, the female parishioners outnumber the males as well, by a very visible margin.

What exactly, is it about women that they find so disgusting that they must continually exclude and degrade us this way? Do they know that their own hatred for women leads some of us too, to hate our own bodies, because we have the misfortunate of being born as "less than" the exalted status these men accord to their own gender?

This is a discussion which saddens me. I am saddened not only by the decision to prohibit female altar servers, but by the even more distressing accusations of heresy and unorthodoxy against those who disagree with that decision or who hope for the ordination of women and married men. The history of the Church shows that one can be totally orthodox in belief, proclaiming the creed with joy, and at the same time work for changes in practice. (Note, however, that we already have married men in the Catholic Church. They just happen to be Eastern Rite Catholics or former Episcopalians or Lutherans.)

A few points.

- A priest acts 'in persona Christi'. Since Christ was a man, a woman cannot take this role.

- Priests who say the Traditional Latin Mass do not seem to want for male altar servers. An old Master Of Ceremonies told me "When the girls come in, the boys leave".

- I think it was Pope John Paul II who definitively said that women could not become priests. Women's ordination is a dead issue in the Catholic Church.

- Why do some women, who so disparage the patriarchial hierarchy, seem at the same time to want validation from it i.e. they want to join it?

- Women cannot become priests by the definition of that word, just as men cannot become nuns. They can, however, become priestesses.

Misogyny. Hatred of women and girls, contempt for females by JPII and B16 and those who think like them in regard to women in the church.
Exact opposite of Jesus is this no-girls-women-allowed-at-the-altar nonsense.

1. Female and male apostles, chosen by Jesus. Junia, Mary Magdalene, Samaritan woman, Martha, Mary Bethany. Female and male apostles.

2. Only women anointed Jesus, two different women, both honored, praised by Jesus, the Messiah, the Anointed one. Anointing is what our bishops do.

3. Mary Magdalene, never a prostitute, pope Gregory's error corrected in 1969 by the Vatican. Mary Magdalene, Instrumental in Christianity. Jesus made her the Apostle to teach the other apostles about Resurrection and Crucifixion. All the men had run away and hid. John was a child at the cross.

4. Women present at Last Supper, at Seders and Passover as are children present too.

5. Women present at Pentacost.

6. No male or female in Christ. Galatians 3
All are welcome and valued. Women are indeed equal to men, are also the Christ to us as well.

7. Men can be dads to children, can be parents too, and saying women can only be mothers or nuns is ridiculous.
Then it should be also decreed men can only be a parent too, or a monk, and never a priest either.

8. The Theology of the Body junk of JPII is nonsense and not worthy of the RCC,

9. Jesus considered girls worthy too, raised the daughter of Jairus from the dead. If B16 and JPII and their cronies reject girls and women then all women and girls should be dead to these disordered, musogynist, anti-Jesus heretics who by their hatred of females are unlike Jesus.

10. Women and girls should stop giving their free labor, their money, their talent,to such an unCatholic non-universal which is what Catholic is too, (universal) until this sexist evil misogyny is eradicated in the RCC.

I am a 29 year old female Altar Server coordinator, have been serving for almost 15 years since 1997, and coordinating for 7. I have seen Altar Serving spark insterest in both females and males to either become a priest or a nun. For me, it sparked my wanting to be involved in various ministries which I have tried from Sacristan to Eucharistic Minister to Minister of Hospitality to teaching Confirmation to Vacation Bible School to Handbell choir and various other ministries. I'm certainly open to God calling me to become a nun. Personal invitation is key. Vocations is not mentioned that often at Mass every now and then it is from single life to married life to religious to preisthood, but very rare. I can say I have a current server who is going to start postulancy next year to the priesthood. Not all that serve will become priests or nuns, but we the congregation and the priests can always encourage the vocations. When having ministry fairs, it wouldn't hurt to have tables with nuns to answer questions about becoming a nun or seminarians to talk to boys about becoming a priest. There is so many things that the Church can do besides say that girls aren't allowed as Altar Servers.