Bp. Tobin discusses politics on 'Hardball'

They don't care what happens. They just want to take their pretty stand and 'let the chips fall where they may', man-style. Then they get to feel real pretty and good.

Mathews gave Tobin every chance to answer,indeed refused to let Tobin brush off the question. Tobin finally allowed that perhaps a woman who obtained an abortion should be punished.

"Matthews didn't really give Tobin much of a chance to answer, unfortunately."

That's the key point. If you want to disagree with the Bishop, that's your right. But at least allow him to discuss and debate the issues with you. Talking over him, interrupting him, and nearly shouting him down is a bullying tactic (something Matthews is quite skilled at).

Matthews used to be more even-handed and even gave equal time to both sides of an issue. Now he's in the same boat with those on the extreme right (Beck, Limbaugh, etc.) and the extreme left (Olbermann, Matthews, etc.) that have traded civil debate and discourse for shouting, insults, and fear-mongering.

Matthews wouldn't even consider the argument that pro-life and anti-abortion views can be just as easily arrived at through an appeal to simple reason and natural law, even without a faith component. We are pro-life as Catholics because of our faith and the teachings of our Church....but we are also pro-life because reason and the natural law demand it. There are many Americans opposed to abortion who are not particularly religious and don't use their faith as the main basis for their beliefs about the evils of abortion.

Of course, Matthews wouldn't let the Bishop explain that position...it's easier to shut him up and make sure you make all the feminists, secularists, and atheists on the Democratic left happy.

How in the hell is it dictating public policy if you ask someone to be honest about which faith he belongs to?

Memo to Tobin:

"YOU need to quit your job and save YOUR soul."

Bishop Tobin had just about the final two and a half minutes to answer Mathew's questions about criminal sanctions. Tobin didn't come close. Mathews point needs to be digested by the pro life movement. Americans do seem to see that abortion is immoral, but they are not all that enthused about criminalizing abortion. As Mathews said in his lengthy sermon, I too have never heard anything substantive about what criminalizing abortion would mean in an actual legal sense.

From what I've seen in countries that actually do criminalize and imprison women for abortions, it produces income for out of country doctors who serve wealthy women, and leaves lots of existing children without their imprisoned mothers--children who too frequently also have absent fathers. These laws also place women who have had miscarriages in precarious situations in which they have to prove their innocence. Is this where America really wants to go?

Chris Matthews said that Bishop Tobin refuses to suggest a punishment for abortion because he knows that "everyone would laugh at him." This is only because abortion has become accepted in our society as a common and necessary practice. At one point in our history, I'm sure that the idea of punishing someone for slavery would have been "laughable" as well. Now, no one thinks it is strange to impose punishments for owning slaves. In fact, it is commonly accepted that owning someone else as a slave is a gravely immoral act. Once people begin to understand that abortion is murder, a punishment imposed by law, whatever that may be, wouldn't be bizarre or laughable at all.

Well, I guess it's good-bye to Catholic politicians unless they are somehow only representing Catholic voters.

I believe Matthews gave him all the time to say what sanctions should be in an anti-abortion law. The Bishop. would not, could not name a sanction that should be in any anti-abortion law. No bishop I ever heard has mentioned even a range of sanctions.... and as Matthews pointed out they want legislators to pass a law under pain of sin. It was obvious the bishop was afaid and not prepared to name a sanction. Warning to all bishops. not to pich in any game when they have no curve ball.

Once again, I sit here and laugh. Chris Matthews is a fool. The catholic church teaches that stealing is wrong and that it should be illegal in a moral society. The church does not, however, attempt to tell each government around the world how to punish or even enforce the laws pertaining to theft. The same goes for abortion. It should be illegal. How legislators choose to write the preventions and enforcements into law are up to them, but it should be illegal in a moral and just society. How anyone can say that a woman has the right to kill her own child in what should be the safest plcae in the world for it, its own mother's womb, is simply barbaric and evil logic.

Too bad Matthews didn't focus a bit on Bishop Tobin's wanting Mr. Kennedy to refrain from or be denied communion. Someone (lay or theologian) needs to ask a bishop who uses the Eucharist as a sanction, which gospel narrative of the Last Supper shows Jesus telling Judas not to eat the bread or drink the wine He offers the Twelve around the table. Jesus must have had a good idea of what Judas was about to do.

Matthews obviously has a high opinion of himself and seems to find his own opinions much more interesting that that of his guest. It's hard to get over the interview technique, but I don't see the church being asked about specific punishments for other crimes, I don't see why that should be any different here. I thought Tobin's responses were quite good, and had Matthews spent anytime listening he may have thought so too.

Frankly, the Bishop's response is a sound one.

He is pushing for Catholic lawmakers to enact civil law that is consistent with, and reflects, the moral values held by the Faith and which are readily found in natural law. Despite Matthews' badgering, how to achieve that end is not for the Bishop or the Church to say, but, rather, is the responsibility of the legislators to figure out.

It's not surprising that an openly defiant and disobedient pro-abortion Catholic such as Matthews would berate a Bishop of Holy Mother Church for nearly all of the 'interview'. This was an ambush, not a dialogue. To also open the Hardball segment with a clip of JFK (not exactly your ideal man of Catholic virtue) discussing how his faith doesn't influence his decisions or judgement (that's a scary thought in itself) set the tone perfectly. Chris Matthews and others don't mind George Soros or Michael Moore influencing discussion and policy, but God forbid the Church should speak out for the most defenseless. And for Matthews to invoke the old and worn out "are you going to throw women in prison" talking point from Planned Parenthood and the ultra left...wow!...desparate. Seeking to protect the unborn legally in this country in 2009 may be as unpopular as seeking to end the dehumanizing institution of slavery was in 1859, but I hope all true Catholics (through discernment, formation, humility and obedience) listen to the Church and continue to fight the good fight. As for Bishop Tobin denying Communion to Mr. Kennedy: if Rep. Kennedy CHOOSES not to BE IN communion with the Church, then he should refrain FROM Holy Communion. We have the free will to choose good or evil. It is obvious that pro-abortion Catholics have made THEIR choice, but don't want to accept the consequences.

Bishop Tobin appeared on the O’Reilly Factor last night.

Unlike Chris Matthews, Bill O’Reilly was respectful and let the Bishop speak.

Here’s the video:
http://allhands-ondeck.blogspot.com/2009/11/bishop-tobin-appears-on-orei...

I watched "Hardball" on Monday night. I was proud of the way Chris
Matthew handled himself. The main point was that legislators must
defend the Law and it is the Law that the Constitution has been amended to
allow abortion in the US. He does not have to agree with the law, he has
to defend it. The Church puts Catholic leaders in a difficult position...
It certainly does not encourage them. In my opinion, it is an abuse of
power to to use the Eucharist as a punishment. SDS