On birth control and NFP

So if 98% of the people favor the death penalty, the Church should favor it too?

Does 98% of Catholics using birth control mean that only clergy/bishops are ones left to use the Humanae Vitae solutions. Absolutely not... they are joined by Catholic couples past their menopause. (-:

Heidi, You should be aware that the Guttmacher Institute, far from being an independent and unbiased research source, is heavily supported by Planned Parenthood and often serves as its unofficial mouthpiece on reproductive policy. Moreover its assertion that 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraception is credible to only the most non-critical reader. While you graciously agree that "religious folks have every right" to persuade Government to incorporate their "values", no mention is made
of the much more extensive influence to promote contraception on behalf of the Pharmaceutical industry; which reaps billions in recurring revenue in contraceptive sales.

Massive dollar amounts are spent each year in PR strategies, Planned Parenthood being only one angle, to convince Government to use tax revenue based on "Scientific evidence" of the “ medical and social benefits” of Contraception. Given the recent results of the National Institute of Health wholeheartedly swallowing this line, and recommending public support for contraception in the new Healthcare Act, you and I will now be paying for the buckets of Caviar the Pharma CEO's consume in celebration of a well earned victory.

A bishop, humble?

One who thinks HE doesn't know what's best for women?

When shrimp learn to whistle.

I agree. Of course, you want both sides to be humble, right? Not just the bishops.

humility is the first victim of any discourse in anglo America

we should each read most carefully each evening the RUle for Monks written 1500 years ago by Our Holy Father Saint BEnedict, in its chapters on humility and frequent allusions and recommendations.

99% of Catholics using contraception? Perhaps this is accurate, but why? People have the ability to have lots and lots of children, because in the "good old days" most of them died, prior to reaching adulthood. We no longer need to have a dozen children. People get this, but apparently, the hierarchy does not. NFP does not work all that well and is not all that "natural" hence, the vast majority of people utilize contraception. THis is a fact, and all the posturing and brownnosing of Rome will not change this.
It's time to move on and fight abortion, war and poverty and stop worrying about what married couples do in their bedrooms. Just because some weird, old celibate men in the Vatican say something, does not make it true. The Curia seems obsesses with gynecology, as they were obsessed with astronomy a few hundred years ago. They were wrong then, they are wrong now.

If you think that I am wrong, visit Bangladesh and China and see what overpopulation is really like.

"Schisms come in two basic flavors: juridical and theological. When it comes to ignoring bishops’ juridical authority, the signs are already there."

Two words: Humanae Vitae...

[Rather, perhaps it’s that humility is the number-one quality necessary for dialogue about how to live as Christians, and that we should not be too quick to either give or receive advice that hasn’t been tested by years of living and plenty of challenging discourse."]

If only Paul VI had been willing to listen to the lay people on his advisory panel who were overwhelmingly in favor of declaring contraception licit among married couples. Instead, he chose to side with the myth of papal infallibility and refused to teach against the teachings of previous popes. It was a combination saving papal face (pride) and taking the easy our (expediency). I truly believe he suffered self doubt about his decision until he died, given the immediate controversy over Humanae Vitae and the fact that he never issued another encyclical during the rest of his papacy.

"...the need for humility,   which is so hard when someone is convinced they have the capital-T Truth."

Good article,   Heidi.     The ideological "capital-T Truth" has become a destructive force both within the Church and within secular government in the United States.     The Church never claimed to be a democracy,   but the U.S. is a pluralistic, non-theocratic representative form of democracy.     For those who want theocracy,   try moving to Iran or Saudi Arabia to see how that works out for you.
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Our secular government only works when we can have civil discussions that don't wander into the fact-free zone or personal attacks,   discussions that stick to the issues with both intended and unintended consequences considered,   a good-faith effort to find some measure of common ground,   giving up political or moralizing posturing,   and a willingness to make compromises when no one can have everything they want.
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An "us versus them" mentality with each side coddling its out-of-control "id" and its id-tantrums,   would rather burn the national house down rather than work together to repair it and make reasonable compromises on how the job gets done   (Congress being exhibit 'A').     Folks who are serious with concerns about abortion should be reasonable in the matter of affordable access to medically prescribed artificial contraception,   which is the best strategy we have to reduce the number of abortions in our country.     Individual personal religious beliefs won't change the facts,   and endless arguing and moralizing from dug-in positions is counterproductive.
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Further,   the RCC bishops have no legitimate authority over non-Catholics and their choices in family planning.     Sr. Walsh's argument entirely ignores multiple SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment which not only protects freedom to practice one's religion but also provides freedom from imposition of religion on citizens in their private lives.     Your religious "rights" stop where someone else's begin.     If a Catholic disagrees with artificial contraception,   then don't use it — but don't attempt to impose your preferred NFP on the population at large by quibbling over insurance premiums.     What insurance will pay for does not mandate any method one way or the other.
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In a democracy no one gets absolute control over how every single tax dollar or insurance premium dollar is spent,   no matter how strongly one feels about particular issues.     Adults know that;     only two-year olds would stomp their feet,   pick up their toys and go home because they cannot get their way or make everyone else comply with 100% of their demands.     Catholics who wear their absolute 'capital-T truth' like an iron-clad armor need to remember that when they enter secular debates on public policy — you cannot have your way 100% of the time on any issue.
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Of course the bishops response would be global and edictive. They possess the referred tp T-TRUTH. Correctly stated and with some of that humility they could have told the real truth... it could violate freedom of conscience for
SOME catholics. As you state very well that some appearrs to be a few, very few. The whole truth of the super-catholic stance on contraception is that
it was not received and acknowledged by the vox populi. Its essentially
history. In our open society no religion has the right to expect their values to be adopted, period. They already have the respect of our constitution insofar as the have full freedom of religion. In the course of the next few generations this problem will dissolve. Either our sect will dwindle or it
will adapt to common sense reality. We currently have many who would welcome
the pure, smaller, totally devoted, non-questioning, in neeed of certitude types. They may even have partial success short term. Son however their children too will rebel and seek a much less uptight and fear driven obedience to an absolute authority which continually falls short of godly perfection. Ireland is getting it right, sadly many have simply walked away and decided its all bunk. I feel badly. I would love to see Ireland return to its roots. That would mean before the intervention of rome in the late 600s. Ireland had some very successful monasteries with married monks and whole families attached to the monastery. This is why you will find a wonderful Irish family name Mannix. Most would wonder if that is an Irish name but I assure you it is. It is derived simply from the Irish name Manach
which means MONK. How any human could get away with declaring celibacy a better than situation flies in the logic of Gods creation. [Did God make a mistake?] To push celibacy has to be a denigration of Gods obvious choice for man. Of course once you set up an absolute monarcy God soon becomes a secondary source as history proves.
God bless all good people who have used their common sense and free conscience
to be religious but not be dictated to by any King or Pope. Our protestant
brethren have in a sense been better served by Sola Scriptura than we have by being deprived for so long and ridiculously evn forbidden to read scripture.
Our ecclesiastics who should lead in humility have conned themselves in a system of progressive elitism. We need to reverse the trend.

God Bless, TomC.

I'm the Her.meneutics writer you reference here, and just wanted to thank you for reading, responding, and adding to the conversation. Thanks for picking up on what, for me, was the meat of my piece--a call for respectful, informed discourse. I wrote the piece more to make that argument than to argue against NFP, even though I included some reasons that I have chosen medical contraception. I'm going to link to your post from my own blog. Again, many thanks.

All you have to do is to look at Latin America to see what a disaster the Vatican policy on birth control has caused. Probably, our hemisphere would have far fewer problems if the Vatican had not intruded its nose into Latin America long ago.

The Catholic clergy has [or is supposed to have] zero experience with sex. No experience whatsoever, yet, they presume to tell married couples what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms. The vast majority of the laity is not listening to them. And that is not changing, contrary to what the Trads try to sell us. It's over. Time to focus on abortion, poverty and issues of war and peace. After the debacle of the clerical sexual abuse scandal, a sensible person would think that the Bishops would have a moratorium on preaching to the laity about sexuality, but apparently not. The thing is, all that preaching is not really directed at the laity, it is to impress Rome. You have to vigorously spout the party line if you hope to get promoted.

This reminds me of the old Soviet Union, where the workers pretended to work, and the government pretended to pay them. A Potempkin village of a Church.