Despite what opponents say, women deacons are for ministry

One associate professor ... said, "Millions of women have lived their Catholic faith and have made inestimable contributions to the Church without any desire to prance about the sanctuary in clerical garb."

In other words, we should leave the prancing to the guys.

One important tradition often left out in the discussion of women deacons is the Armenian. The Armenian Apostolic Church has a few women deacons (or at least has had them in recent living memory), and they have a history different from most others. Women deacons seem to have arisen in Armenia at about the same time they were disappearing elsewhere. It appears that they were created for a different purpose: Rather than assisting at baptisms of women and suchlike, Armenian deaconesses were always monastics, and dedicated primarily to ministry to women within the monasteries -- including, indisputably, liturgical ministry. They were/are ordained using the same formula as for men, and do serve at the altar during the Badarak (Eucharist). They wear the same vestments as male deacons, with the addition of a veil.
These facts have made easier (though not easy) the discussion of the revival of women deacons in other Orthodox Churches. The fact that an apostolic Eastern Church has them should also make it easier for Roman Catholics.
Not much is written in English about Armenian women deacons; but there is at least one, somewhat uneven, book: "The Deaconess in the Armenian Church" by Fr. Abel Oghlukian, translated by S. Peter Cowe, Ph.D. The book was published by St Nersess Seminary Press in New Rochelle, NY in 1994. ISBN is 1-885011-00-8. It has some interesting pictures at the end.

"I did not hear back"

Ms.Zagano,

Your experience is so resonant with mine. Leadership in our church seems to live in the dark. Over and over, when a thoughtful challenge appears, the church's response is no response.

That allowed abuse to continue, and for victims to be ignored.

And the same dark space where the church lives, permits women to be ignored.

"I did not hear back". Evil in the world.

Kathryn Barber

Well, of course we don't want women to "prance about the sanctuary in clerical garb." That prancing and floating in clerical garb should be reserved for males. Reminds me of something from the Tom Sawyer book where he really liked to do things in "style" like the dukes and kings of Europe. All that lace, color, silk, buttons, etc. of the clergy vestments really adds style.

Dang, I had resolved to not make sarcastic comments in 2012, and here I'm breaking my resolution only 18 days into the year.

Dan Pickett

In just the Milky Way, God created 10 billion stars with planets that could support life. I wonder on how many of those planets they've decided that the Creator willed biology to determine theological influence, role, and who should keep on prancing.

Part of the problem here is that the Permanent Deacons have many examples where wearing clerical garb takes precedence to "service". Thus people have a wrong idea of deacons.

Phyllis Zagano wrote:

"Still, the most violent combination of anger and misinformation comes at the mention of women as deacons, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why."

_________________________________________

Probably for the same reason half a century ago that people could not fathom the idea of a woman as a physician. They simply were not used to it and their small, narrow little minds could not imagine it. Now more than 50 percent of students in medical school are female. People got used to it.

They hate and fear what they cannot imagine.

The same for the military, Navy fighter pilots, etc. Women pilot military and other civilian aircraft now, and people are getting used to it.

And the same for many, many other fields where men have reserved the "positions" and privileges exclusively for themselves.

This issue deserves further exploration. Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens, a truly remarkable man, restored the practice of installing deaconesses, in convents in Greece. I don't know as of this writing,whether the practice has been continued. Christodooulos openly admitted that he hoped to investigate the possibility of including married women in this ministry. There are rites for installing deaconesses in the 8th Book of Apostolic Consitutions, so it is difficult toargue aginst the possibility, at least in theory. "Contra factum,non valet argumentum."

Finally, an NCR article that I can agree with. First of all, don't think that women are not involved at many levels, even the highest, in Catholic diocesan ministry. Where I minister as a permanent deacon, the diocesan chancellor is a woman and she does very well without ordination. That being said, I do believe that there is precedent in scripture for women deacons and there is no reason why women could not be ordained to such ministry.

As far as married priests, that is another issue altogether. It is really not practical considering 24/7 ministry to a parish and to a family unless the ministry is institutional (9-5). Additionally, most parishes could not afford to pay all the costs associated with a priest with a family.

There are many possibilities, but the emphasis should not be placed on simply permitting married priests or ordaining women just because they want to be. There are many more considerations to be examined. This is not as some people think, a matter of discrimination, but rather true pragmatism.

A thorough examination of possibilities, problems and practicality are in order.

No faithful Roman Catholic who has studied Church history would ever feel threatened by the subject under discussion. They know that the Catholic Church has never and will never change its requirements regarding ordination, at least regarding gender. They derive this confidence from our unchanging, centuries old, Holy Spirit inspired Sacred Tradition. Just knowing these facts, is in itself a buffer from the turmoil that seems to consume those who wage war against a Church that will never change its dogmatic tenets.

Reading Phyllis Zagano's piece reminds me that there was a misogyny (= hatred of women) in Christianity down the centuries, and it lingers even today. It is a hatred which has not been completely exorcised. Perhaps we do longer burn them at the stake, but we ignore them and ridicule them, and demean them in how we speak.

But the world changes, even though the Church may live in a time warp of its own making. The status of women has changed radically in many parts of the world. Their desires and ambitions are less and less to become priests or deacons in the present kind of Church. However issues of justice, equal opportunity, freedom, and the compassionate care of creation do engage the imagination of the young today, and this does include young women.

M. J. Pereira

please drop the subject. benedict will not change his mind nor will his succesor no matter what the american church advocates.

As far as paying the costs of a priest with a family goes, consider our Protestant and Episcopalian brethren who happily pay the costs of their clergy's families. How do they manage to do it when they usually have much smaller congregations than the Catholic churches do?
How I loved Pope John the Twenty-third and how disappointed I am to see the changes he brought about being reversed by those who followed him--especially by the current leader. I used to hope to live to see the day when we had a woman U.S. President and women priests. Perhaps in the years that are left to me, I will see a woman president but I have given up hope that female clergy will be accepted by the Catholic Church in my lifetime. I am halfway to joining the Episcopal Church where I feel very comfortable and very much welcomed.

Please, this is not a subject to be dropped. The situation is not derived from any Holy Spirit. There is a simple historical reason for the embedded
mysogeny. It begins with Aristotle and his forgivable but incorrect biology.
He believed that a fully formed human being in miniature [homounculus] was
placed in a womans womb [basket] to develop. This places the womans role in a very subservient light, to say the least. Thomas Aquinas inherited and passed on Aristotles thinking and so the woman was even more downgraded as a result. Thomas was a Saint and a beautiful thinker but he was a man of his times and was very much impressed with greek philosophy. An aside here might help in understanding hoe mediaeval thought can cramp modern decision making.
Thomas insisted that the soul was not generated by any human coupling. It was
he said created individually by God. And, it did not come into being at conception. Now, think how that will be resolved in terms of theabortion
issue. Not in favor of abortion at all, I simply point out that Thomas could
not fix the point in time where a sould was present and that does create a problem which is dodged by claiming life begins with conception. Thomas would
have no problem with life he would have an enormous problem with whether that
life had a soul. Why do you think Limbo was invented? Women will be ordained. It will perhaps take the usual 400 years the church seems to need
to even get to say oops! [Luther, Joan of Arc, The burning of witches, the inquisition and more..] We will not be here of course but then who knows miracles have happened. John 23 was one, maybe we a due for another.
Thanks Phyllis keep the kettle boiling some time soon we may have tea..
TomC.

Canon 15 of the Council of Chalcedon clearly refers to the ordination of women. The clumsy incompetence of permanent deacons bears eloquent witness for the inclusion of women as deacons. In truth, women do almost all of the real service in them Catholic Church

I disagree that the argument that clerics don't want to see women in clerical garb doesn't hold weight. It surely does! Seeing a woman in vestments is POWERFUL! There is no doubt about it. I remember vividly the first time I saw my good friend who is a Lutheran pastor wearing an alb and a stole for a baptism...when this young lovely mother-priest took that baby in her arms wearing an alb IT WAS POWERFUL!..That feeling of power continued every time I saw her vested at "mass"...The dress does make the man it seems for our priests and prelates...

Nobody's talking about this...6000 people signed a letter, that's not at all impressive, in fact its evidence that this does not merit much attention.

Until Catholics realize that the male dominated clergy do not have a full monopoly on the sacraments, they will continue to suffer. We need to demand the right to select our bishops and priests. There are independent Catholic communities in this country who have women priests and deacons. We also need to study history and understand every papal claim is not supported with historical facts. Even the selection of our bishops by Rome dates only from 1829.

The reason for the crazies is that there is so much fear of women having any authority. These people are sick.

Ms. Zagano,

You are predicating your idea on the notion that the topic of women's ordination is still open, based upon information which dates before Ordinatio Sacertodalis. The Church, in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis closed that discussion. I know that you don't like to hear that, but it is a fact in the life of the Church. If the priesthood is closed to women, then the deaconate is as well.

I also think that you operate under the assumption that the permanent and transitional diaconate are somehow different, based upon a cursory reading of your overall position. They are not. They are the exact same thing. If a woman lacks the character to be a transitional deacon, then she lacks the character to be a permanent deacon and vice versa. The assumption may be that the permanent deacon will not go on to seek higher Orders, but that is not legally or sacramentally the case. He may.

I asked you this before and you didn't respond to me, ff you have some insight into sacramental differences between the permanent and transitional diaconate, I would be interested to know them.

If the diaconate were opened to women, then it would necessarily follow that the priesthood would be open as well. And that is where you're really going with this isn't it, Ms. Zagano? Really, you're trying to do an end around with regard to Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

As it is, if the priesthood is closed to women, not on man's authority, but on the Church's, then the diaconate is closed as well, because the diaconate is necessary in the ordination of a priest.

Bottom line, regardless of your conversations with then-Cardinal Ratzinger, or with Cardinal O'Connor or with anyone else, the fact remains that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis ended that conversation. And what's more, according to your own words, didn't Cardinal O'Connor ask you to leave this "aside?"

But this really isn't about anything other than trying to open the door to women's ordination to the priesthood. And that is selling women short! Please don't fall into that trap. Women have so much more to offer the Church than the ministerial priesthood.

I understand your want (not need) to have women ordained. It is based upon the secular notion of women's suffrage as modeled in the USA. The Church isn't bound by secular law nor is it bound by erroneous understandings of heretical sects ordaining women. If you look back to the Council of Nicaea you'll see that the "ordained" women were done so invalidly and that was confirmed by said Council.

Please don't get me wrong. Women do have a role to play, but it is not as an ordained minister in the Catholic Church.

(My repsonse is also posted at my blog, please note. Thank you.)